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noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 747

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh! Here comes Mikey with another long winded rebuttal!


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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 483

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At typical B&J spots, about 90% of all windsurfers are what iso would call "hedonists". They mostly go back and forth, jibe dry or wet, and go back. Some refer to this as lawn mowing (and it's still lawn moving even if you don't go in a straight line, and throw superman-tight planing jibes, isobars).

Perhaps one out of ten windsurfers do something more interesting. A few are racers, go upwind and downwind at angles that the lawn mowers can only dream off, and passing them as if they were standing still. Their jibes are often outstanding. Some go for speed, and reach speeds that are twice as fast as what we see from the lawn mowers.

Others always work on learning new things that seem pointless to some yard workers. Talented young ones like G-Master learn lots of new tricks in a couple of seasons; others take longer. Some of them sail more often and longer than anyone else, and apparently have a lot more fun.

The most inspiring windsurfers don't restrict themselves to one category. Think of Whitey, who dances around the mast in Peter Hard freestyle videos in ways that seem impossible for his body type. Whitey also held the several word speed records, and is an avid wave sailor. Or watch Josh Angulo, wave world champion, doing "simple" freestyle like loops and body drags, or race in PWA slalom events.

I am mostly mowing the lawn when I am sailing, but I have dabbled enough in freestyle and racing/speed to appreciate the skills required and the fun it can be. My wife prefers to work on something new every time she is out. She often gets compliments about her sailing when she gets of the water. Freestylers like her and G-Master might actually get young people into windsurfers, because what they are doing looks interesting. Lawn mowing looks boring. It looks like work. Many previous lawn movers are now kiters.

Unfortunately, some humans see the need to denigrate everything they don't understand. No surprise to see this kind of behavior by someone who thinks there is only one way to jibe or get into foot straps. Maybe, iso, you should try some of the things you diss. Don't give me age as an excuse - I have seen several freestylers in their 60s and high 70s who are fantastic, and get better every year. That includes light wind freestyle, which is tons of fun to do. Or perhaps you'll argue that sitting on the beach and whining about "no wind" is more fun?
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 421

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yes, PP, I know about linking moves in lightwind freestyle. Heck, I've actually linked a few lightwind freestyle moves myself. Cesar is the epitome of that with his "flowstyle" which I really like and appreciate. but, what about planing freestyle moves? maybe 2 in a row?

someone also mentioned Josh Angulo. Watching him loop a large slalom board and something like a 9.0 5 cam race sail at the ECWF a couple of years ago was truly amazing.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13274

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
1. There is no practice in freestyle.

2. Since you have made tens of thousands of jibes (your words), that would be EXTREMELY boring.

3. Try learning something new.

4. So you use one or a couple of people out sailing as an example of all freestylers?

5. if they are having fun doing what they want, who are you to put them down for it???

6. It doesn't cut any precious time. If they are out having fun doing something they enjoy, how is that cutting their time?

7. If it was light wind and I had a choice of being on a 8.5 and planing

8. I would not put down people sailing on large sails

9. You once again change everything so that it suits your point of view. I NEVER said sport climbing at 20k.

10. I said sport climbing is more akin to freestyle windsurfing since your example of comparing mountain climbing to freestyle sailing was ridiculous at best..

11. somebody recently mentioned you putting stuff down that you don't agree with and once again you do it.


12. The one neat thing about windsurfing is that it is pretty much open ended.

13. You can continue to evolve and try new stuff. Challenging yourself.

14. He blasts the B&F sailors because they aren't "slashing turns", then he slams freestyle sailors

1. Lucky you; Brandt says it takes most people many hundreds of tries to learn the vulcan. That’s a ton of practice, IMO.

2. Beats the hell out of ramming Washington or Oregon.

3. I try every day. Is it OK with you if that doesn’t include practicing or performing freestyle? Do I have to quit WSing because FS doesn’t interest me?

4. Which part of my post did I say applies to all WSers?

5. I neither said they are not having fun nor put anyone down. Show us any of my past 20,000 posts where I put anyone down besides a few well-deserving personal attack dogs … whose pack you’re working awfully hard to join.

6. Again; you’re lucky. Few of us get as much sailing as we want; to us, it is precious. The “some” I referred to are trying to practice or perform aerial and/or planing tricks; tough to do while slogging.

7. “That light of wind”? I’m referring, for example, to a solid 28 mph average. If you can perform freestyle on an 8.5 then, please post some pics.

8. I wouldn’t, either, and never have.

9. You, not I, brought up “sport climbing”; I said “mountain climbing”; gave as an example the difficulties of even thinking, let alone exercising, at 20,000 feet; and compared it to trying a trick over and over and over and over until it clicks. Some people like both; some don’t. Sorry, but that’s a fact, not just an opinion.

10. Not to me, nor to a couple of hundred million lazy hedonists like me.

11. Claiming I put something or someone down and finding an example of it are not the same. Until you can show us some examples, your BS is just as deep as theirs. They tried and failed; can you do any better?

12 … as I’ve posted many times.

13. And as I try every day. Sorry if it doesn’t happen to include freestyle, but I, not you, determine what floats my board. Thats why I abhor nanny states so strongly.

14. Those are outright lies, John. Besides contradicting the archives, they attribute motive and/or intent neither real nor in evidence and strongly contradicted in dozens of my posts.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13274

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

drysuit2 wrote:
Over 11,500 posts says it all.

Not when misread, misquoted, misattributed, and/or misunderstood ... often deliberately.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1089
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh just for a jibe picture, take a look at this. This is Bruce P. during the 2009 Gorge Blowout. The 1/2 way point at Viento (which means he has already been sailing for quite a while and probably is getting a little tired). Yet look at his form with this big sail either in or heading to overpowered conditions. Every time I see him sailing I can pretty much pick him out from his jibes.

Sorry for putting your picture up for all to see Bruce, but since this is a jibe discussion, I thought a nice picture of how one should look was over due.....



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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1138

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
At typical B&J spots, about 90% of all windsurfers are what iso would call "hedonists". They mostly go back and forth, jibe dry or wet, and go back. Some refer to this as lawn mowing (and it's still lawn moving even if you don't go in a straight line, and throw superman-tight planing jibes, isobars).


Iso uses the word hedonist to suggest that he's making a choice for pleasure. I don't know how anyone can put the word "hedonist" next to the behavior of doing the exact same thing over and over and over again for 25+ years, while avoiding any and everything that's come along since. This is a guy in the rut of all ruts. re Drysuit's comment about Iso's 11000 posts...you can go dig up his posts on rec.windsurfing (another 8000) and find him making the exact same arguments in the mid 1990's. Twenty years ago people were suggesting Iso try something new (and he was arguing against).

Meanwhile who here is convinced that Iso is throwing superman-tight planing jibes?

I utterly and totally believe that if he were to go take a single clinic (ala ABK) and choose to try and learn new things, he'd have an amazing time. If only.

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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1385

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know... I've got to defend Iso here.

He's enjoying himself on the water and who are we to say he's doing it all wrong and could be having 100% much more fun if he only tried this and that.... Sounds like the conversation I have with the average convert kiter. Wink

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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1385

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never mind - I just went backwards in this thread and saw that he hired the North Korean People's army to make a point he failed to make in pages upon pages of bullet points. Oh, the tedium!
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1089
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

feuser wrote:
I don't know... I've got to defend Iso here.

He's enjoying himself on the water and who are we to say he's doing it all wrong and could be having 100% much more fun if he only tried this and that.... Sounds like the conversation I have with the average convert kiter. Wink


Actually I don't think any of us would put him down for being out sailing his way. But instead putting down his narrow view that everybody else is wasting precious time doing it their way...
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