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This is dumb
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YippieYo



Joined: 16 Jul 2000
Posts: 101
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 4:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgoudie1 has hit almost every single nail on the head about why this is dumb. There are others.

3D printing is vastly over-hyped. It is a prototyping tool. The quality of parts that come out of 3d printers is not good (low strength, terrible finish, huge tolerances).

And in terms of this guy's credibility:
Look how this guy's sail is rigged.
Look at the picture of the board at the bottom. shape, quality of lay-up.
He also puts his foot in the leeward rear footstrap.

And on-board sensors to help find parameters for your perfect board? With NFC? Yeah who needs an experienced shaper? He has an algorithm. But actually he doesn't - but he will "get" one I guess. Yeah, your machine-learning algorithm will be real easy and quick to implement. So will your hardware...

"our materials are not tied to the oil markets" - oh, except for the ABS which is the core of your technology.

I could go on and on about this. Did USWA really endorse this?

This is an example of a terrible kickstarter project. Almost no implementation. A completely mixed message. It seems to me that no engineer has even looked at this yet. This guy just wants the community to buy him a (very expensive) 3d printer.

A good example of a kickstarter project is here: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/840314684/xensrcasetm-3d-sports-tracking-for-iphone-and-ipod

The EpicSesh guys implemented a prototype and have a real, well-thought out product (hardware, mechanical design, software, etc.). And they still were not funded.


cgoudie1 wrote:
I'm wondering why you can't just print the thing with the voids already in
it. Perhaps the structural components you see in the video are of a
different material, than the skin, and the skin is not structural?

Frankly, I would love to be able to pump out a shape , and sail it the
next day, but to me this looks like a prototyping tool, rather than a
production tool. The other issue is that the premise is tailor made
equipment to you, your conditions and your style. That works great
for me, but most windsurfers I know, don't have a clue about what will
work for them, so tailor made, isn't an option unless, the shaper
really really understands you. Lastly, I can get a custom glass board
made for me for less than $1000, and a custom epoxy board for $1500,
or something in between for $1250. So the product offering would have
to be at least equivalent. I think if those guys could pump out a custom
board with custom graphics for say $750 they'd have something.

I'd buy stock in a 3D printer company. A 3D printer created board sports
company, probably not.

-Craig

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Ugly_Bird



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 146

PostPosted: Fri Jun 28, 2013 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: This is dumb Reply with quote

YippieYo wrote:
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1702534746/3d-printed-windsurf-kite-surf-and-paddle-smartboar?ref=live

Almost everything about this is wrong...


No toxic chemicals? LOL.
To dissolve polylactic acid it needs strong alkali....To seal the porous structure of the 3D printed parts it needs organic solvents....

Nevertheless, the idea is awesome!
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slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 409
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 3Dprinters using graphene,a carbon substance that is 200 times stronger than steel. It is flexible though,how much so I do not know.

new materials will surely come along. Parts can be printed in metal too using Lazer sintering.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 414

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm also impressed by the quality of the delivery, compared to the vacuity of the message...

The prototype we are shown could easily be done with 2D water jet cutting. Flat 2D parts glued together. Why not a full 3D design for the ribs, especially since a 3D printing company seems to support them?

I also wonder how a layup will hold with such a wide spacing between structural members. You can imagine the stress buildup when pressing with your heel between structural members. I much prefer to have continuous foam underneath...

Speaking of which, it is quite easy right now to automate cutting foam in custom shapes with CNC machines. I guess it's not done right now for financial reasons. (Are there custom shapers using CNC right now?) It will be much tougher for additive manufacturing since you will have to redesign the structure underneat for every change in shape. And the machine is probably 10 times more expensive and 10 times slower. (100x more expensive per unit...)

The list goes on...
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paccorti



Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember a picture or video from long ago that showed the foam part of a mistral board cut using a CNC machine. It looked pretty cool. This was before I knew that COBRA existed so for all I know it was one of theirs...

Peter
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1228
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 10:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe this is how Mark Nelson does his customs.

-Craig

Sailboarder wrote:

Speaking of which, it is quite easy right now to automate cutting foam in custom shapes with CNC machines. ...
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1394

PostPosted: Sat Jun 29, 2013 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a 3d printer can put together foam blanks without waste and control density for high-stress areas, you might have something. In theory, you could also use machine-controlled pre-preg fiber lay-up as well. The textile structure of traditional laminates is a bit anachronistic considering the tech available today.

However, I trust none of that to this particular kickstarter project. They are looking to manufacture the technology equivalent of a 35 year old thermo formed plastic hull. The video seems a bit like a late April fools joke to me.

_________________
florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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markhunier



Joined: 09 Jul 2013
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I liked the video casinoonlinecanada.co

Last edited by markhunier on Wed Jul 17, 2013 3:38 am; edited 1 time in total
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dennis_c



Joined: 05 May 1998
Posts: 649
Location: Rio

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I, for one, wish this technology had been around in the mid-nineties, when I started windsurfing. Particularly the app that tracks your sailing data and designs your next board. Today I would be riding a hollow, 3D-printed BIC Veloce 328!
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edoremus337



Joined: 27 Aug 2011
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:51 am    Post subject: Strength is my main concern Reply with quote

Coming from someone who works with 3D printers everyday, the only real benefit I can see from using 3D printers is the ease of building a board. Anyone with access to the machines and some CAD experience could design their own board and print out over night. I would be very worried about the strength of the boards though, even though the Stratasys FDM machines print in ABS plastic, it is still fairly brittle and I cant imagine it holding up to typical windsurf conditions..

Still a cool idea though!
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