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Global cooling
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MalibuGuru



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 9293

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've heard reports that the U.S. is only producing 1/8th of the greenhouse gases now. Has anyone seen smog photos of Bejing or Sigapore lately. It is horrible.

However, radical change in the U.S. would be counter productive to the cause. Why? If our economy slows, we will have no say in the matter. IOW, the richer we are, the easier it is to spend money on cleanup. We are getting poorer each year. The masses won't stand for this very long.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1196
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 2:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
Harsher regulations on our coal burning energy plants, (keeping mind, only ours, not anybody elses outside of our boarders, just ours)


As usual China is copying us and trying to one up us:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/16/world/asia/china-sets-new-rules-aimed-at-curbing-air-pollution.html?_r=0
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China_Business/CBIZ-02-270613.html
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mac.

I agree with a carbon tax. This would have the most effect rather than try to enforce, FAIRLY, a set of regulations which may, or may not, actually stimulate reduction in carbon.

One of the least mercury producing power plants is located near me. However, it risks shut down for particulate pollution. Absolute measurements of some particulates is pushing it against an arbitrary limit.

A carbon tax requires a cooperative Congress. Not going to happen in this environment. But, setting regulations, to be defined and enforced by the states, is not going to be effective either. The power industry moves slowly. I predict they stall with lawsuits, or delay new projects, waiting for a friendly administration.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carbon tax definition: Purely political, feel-good, nanny-state fraud intended SOLELY to promote the far left agenda and penalize those dirty Americans at the grave expense of jobs and the economy, disguised as protection from a tiny threat in which man plays only a tiny part and ultimately costing billions FAR better spent mitigating ACTUAL threats from climactic vagaries.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="swchandler"] Stricter limits on emissions will actively promote innovation, and it will create meaningful jobs here in the US. [/erall?quote]

Nice buzz line, I'm amazed that people actually believe that, try that line on the families of coal miners, or even the coal miner's union.
They'd be throwing chunks of coal at you, as you go running out of there.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Duplicate post

Last edited by coboardhead on Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:34 pm; edited 1 time in total
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's say you guys are correct. Carbon from burning coal is not contributing to global warming, or we do not care if it is.

We still need to clean up coal. I have posted, in the past, the health costs of burning coal that are currently absorbed by the rest of the economy. If these costs were attached to coal electricity, coal would lose the battle with natural gas regardless of the carbon argument. So, it is sort of a mute point, is it not?

Why is it that the, so called, fiscal conservatives are so damned against the fossil fuel industry paying its own way?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 5180

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is a mute point one that is hard to hear?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 4303

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! Guess so!
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17742
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Jun 27, 2013 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CB--there is a rich literature about how much more efficient pollution fees are than command and control structure. Early in my career I favored them absolutely--they require much less bureaucracy to administer. But command and control has worked very well for basic air and water quality regulation, and has created more jobs than it has eliminated. The bleating from NW has been heard, like chicken little's, since the beginning.

It is ironic that the cap and trade approach, was introduced by fiscal conservatives in, I believe, the first Bush's administration, as an innovation to bring market forces to bear on the acid rain problem. It was very effective. Of course, that was when most Republicans were somewhat moderate, actually read literature and bills, and were interested in solutions.

California is leading the way on responding to global warming, and Obama's programs will help. The oilies and coalies and flat earthers will moan.
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