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U.S. now an international laughing stock
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slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 429
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iso, ever the eternal optimist.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14449

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer "pragmatist" or "realist". Each of those threats is as clear and feasible as the collapse of the Twin Towers and well-known long before that event; it's all a matter of when they get the resources and manage to penetrate our defenses. All but the cyberthreat have been clear for decades, and Muslim terrorists has openly sworn, based on their interpretation of the Koran, to employ those and any other means to kill, convert, or enslave as many infidels as possible.

If any of that is news to you, you REALLY need to pay closer attention.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4301

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety. Benjamin Franklin

People will die, whether we allow this bizarre and costly intrusion or not. The Boston Marathon attack proved that. We will have neither security or safety.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5963

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Snowden is a saint. What a bunch of BS. Why didn't Snowden stand his ground instead of fleeing and hiding in questionable places? Eventually he'll be caught and tried for espionage, and in the end it won't go well for him. It's just a matter of time.

With the exception of isobars, I think that we're all very aware that passage of the Patriot Act was a huge mistake, just like the War on Terror. It was all a Republican vision enacted during a time of when they controlled government. Is anyone surprised that the Patriot Act ultimately jeopardizes a certain degree of freedom? Now its policies are so ingrained, it's not like President Obama can just turn it off. Obama wanted to shut down Guantanamo, but as we all found out, Republicans in Congress did not agree. While it can be insinuated that now Obama is fully responsible for the inappropriate government intrusion in our lives, I think that sensible folks understand that's a bunch of crap.

Regarding current NSA policies, I'm glad that Obama said publicly right up front that we should review and consider whether NSA, Homeland Security and other attributes of the Patriot Act need to be revised or eliminated. It's the appropriate thing to do. Of course, that doesn't quite fit the right's game plan of blaming and bashing the Obama Administration. NW30 is now seemingly dancing with the left on this issue to vilify Obama and his administration. How predictable and convenient.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14449

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many local car crashes kill more than the Boston bombing did; its primary purpose was disproving Obama's dismissal of terrorism. Few such events bring down skyscrapers, wipe out stadiums, or shut down a continent's infrastructure. If metadata my phone company already owns will help the government mitigate terrorism, it's no skin off my nose until it gets abused.

It's a bit like today's strikedown of the DOMA: I don't see how it affects my marriage or my life significantly.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3510

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Snowden split to avoid being hung for telling the truth.
I am not supporting him by explaining him.
The only state secret he revealed was that they are listening to electronic media. My friends have been saying that aloud for years and they have not been arrested yet.
The gov.could have just continued to deny it as they have since Bush,but the media companies confirmed it. Shouldn't they be charged for the same crime?
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4301

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can only imagine what this will do for prisons. (DOMA) Will there be marriages in prison? Will the hetero sexual population now demand equal rights? I think that this will be one of the early tests of DOMA.

Iso, When they find out you voted for Palin and illegally downloaded "Green Beret" by Sargent Barry Sadler, Bubba will be marrying you in prison. Embarassed

And Chandler, Obama could have easily shut this down 4 1/2 years ago. He could have stopped escallating the wars.

Furthermore, many conservatives and independents were against the Patriot Act. I certainly was from the beginning and find many things in common with the far left. A vastly smaller govt would have acheived this objective.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5963

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"And Chandler, Obama could have easily shut this down 4 1/2 years ago. He could have stopped escallating the wars.

Furthermore, many conservatives and independents were against the Patriot Act. I certainly was from the beginning and find many things in common with the far left. A vastly smaller govt would have acheived this objective."


Bard, I find it hard to believe that you're that naive. While President Obama is the president of the US, he's not an absolute dictator with a ability to unilaterally do whatever he personally wants. You might want to dwell on that for a while.

Regarding whether some number of conservatives and Independents were against the Patriot Act, I would tend to believe that many Independents were, but I doubt that you can find a notable number of conservatives who were opposed. Moreover, I don't think you can find a conservative think tank that would support your stance. To be fair though, I think that one can find many liberals that supported the Patriot Act, particularly immediately following 9/11.

Lastly, your idea that a vastly smaller government would have achieved any objective we're talking about is pure nonsense. I don't even know why you mentioned it. Maybe you can elaborate on your point.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3510

PostPosted: Wed Jun 26, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know conservatives who opposed the Patriot Act. Sometimes folks idea of conservatives and liberals comes from the fake media.
We lived out of touch with the American media so my impression of folks ideas comes from ASKING THEM.
This is why I am offended here by the the bouts of assigning opinions to others and then assailing them for their stupid opinions.
I note that Chandler doesn't do that, while one of the conservatives does little else. Everyone else seems in between.
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 985
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Aug 23, 2013 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

can you right wingers understand a simple chart?

Can you show me how many countries in the ENTIRE world have a more unfovorable rating on Obama vs what Bush had when he left office.


http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2013/06/18/in-germany-they-still-love-obama/

Quote:
Today, according to new Pew Research Center data not yet released in a report, 88% of Germans say they have confidence in Obama to do the right thing in world affairs. In stark contrast, just 14% had confidence in Bush during his last year in office.

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