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Jibing
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 131

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 9:24 pm    Post subject: Watching videos / Reading tips is nice and all but ... Reply with quote

... nothing replaces repetition, doing them over and over again. Sail control and handling in general improves with planing rides and therefore helps with the jibe. Little by little things click.

Flat water helps tremendously because board balance is easier. A smaller sail slapped on a bigger board that turns well will also facilitate the learning curve.

Be sure to have enough downhaul to help stabilize the sail. Do them when you are not tired, in the beginning of the sessions.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1205

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
Assuming you are doing wide turns and not tight turns you need to be slow and smooth. (


Absolutely. An axiom in ABK windsurfing clinic instruction is "the slower you move, the faster your jibe." You'll see the same thing on the Dasher jibe DVD.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13844

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeconicPuffin wrote:
An axiom in ABK windsurfing clinic instruction is "the slower you move, the faster your jibe."

Caveat: that's applicable only to inherently long, drawn-out jibes. When BP chooses, his jibes look like he hit a contact mine. Blasting along in a beam reach so fast he resembles a greyhound sprinting across a busy dance floor, he throws up a ball of water so big that from a distance it obscures him. But before I can even point and laugh, he exits the explosion at full speed on the opposite tack. It was a jibe, not a mine or a crash, and there is nothing slow about it.

Even my lame attempts at emulating BP's jibe surprise sailors behind me, who move upwind a bit in anticipation that I'll bear off, unhook, bear off further to build speed, drive downwind eating lunch or some damn thing until I'm a porpoising speck in the distance, run out of speed to the point the wind catches up with me and loads up my sail so I don't have to jibe it myself, stall and wait for the barn door (the rig) to swing around by itself (heaven forbid I should burn a calorie assisting it), restart the stalled engine or at least start in first gear, and slowly motor up to speed again.

Hell, when I'm successful, I'm sheeted in and in high gear on the new broad or beam reach by about the second comma in that interminable sequence, and am scores of yards upwind of my incoming wake by the paragraph's period. The only problem now is that guy behind me who swerved upwind towards my incoming wake; my windshield is now filled with his widening eyes and one or both of us have to adjust.

Some of you will call that boasting. It's not; it's a carrot on a stick, an alternative for those who get tired of Queen Mary jibes, or maybe the only road to success for incompetent boobs like me who were getting nowhere with the Queen Mary approach. Unhookoversheethipthrustthrowgrabgodone ... all in one quick compound motion, presuming plenty of speed. If I want to eat lunch, I'll go ashore and do it right rather then try to work it in while running downwind between reaches.

But that's just me. Some people prefer wide jibes. Both work on smooth water with glidey boards or on a powerful slope; the QM method is a bitch, though, in big chop on a sinky wavy board.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2377

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wind strength, water surface, board, fin, sail type all factor in. the more power with less chop the slower one can go thru the motions. weaker winds, wider boards, bigger chop, the faster.

sound like a broken record over this issue. the few that have heeded my advice to try duck jibes concurrently with aspiring the others end up planing out of ducks first. if one is falling and stalling a bunch anyway, what's the harm in trying?

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winfreak



Joined: 26 Apr 2001
Posts: 43
Location: Oregon Coast

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:42 am    Post subject: duck Reply with quote

I agree 100% that , unless you are shlogging, ducks jibes are fast, easy, and fun once you learn the secrets to making them: speed, other jibe tips re getting board on edge and weight forward, absolute commitment, and actively flip that boom/sail so it comes flying back at you and all you have to do grab it and go, go, go!
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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 612
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bad idea. I thought the OP was using a large sail? For him to try to duck a big sail with limited skills,,,, I Dunno. Got Band-aids?
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1205

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
PeconicPuffin wrote:
An axiom in ABK windsurfing clinic instruction is "the slower you move, the faster your jibe."

Caveat: that's applicable only to inherently long, drawn-out jibes.


Twenty years ago on 10' long giant slalom boards that might have been true (hence the reference to the Queen Mary), but with modern equipment smooth and measured movement is the ticket to ripping out of a jibe. I suspect that BP's explosions involve banking off of substantial swell, on gear that is well overpowered by the original poster's standards. For a windsurfer learning to enter a jibe with speed, maintain speed, and exit with speed on the other end, attention to smoothness, subtle board and sail trim etc are going to be what wins the day.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13844

PostPosted: Mon Jun 24, 2013 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PeconicPuffin wrote:
with modern equipment smooth and measured movement is the ticket to ripping out of a jibe. I suspect that BP's explosions involve banking off of substantial swell, on gear that is well overpowered by the original poster's standards. For a windsurfer learning to enter a jibe with speed, maintain speed, and exit with speed on the other end, attention to smoothness, subtle board and sail trim etc are going to be what wins the day.

For the OP's benefit, nothing you (PP) has said changes anything I've said. There are still many ways to skin most cats, preferences matter, my QM reference refers to chosen jibe radius rather than boat size, and tight high speed jibes create their own turning banks even in flat water ... no swell necessary. Probably our closest point of agreement here is Boards Magazine's assessment (and mine and apparently yours) that modern, wider boards don't track as well in very fast, very tight, turns in chop as the slightly older and slightly wider "trad" shapes, and thus demand greater finesse. Like everything else, there are tradeoffs rendering apples'n'oranges truisms questionable.

Anecdotally and in accordance with MANY tutorials and testimonials I've read, when tiptoeing through the tulips fails, it's time for aggression and commitment. I suspect the sailors I've seen who take many years to get in the straps or who fear planing speeds will never learn to plane through jibes. We only have seconds to glide unpowered through turns, so eating lunch and caressing our rigs during jibes is usually more conducive to stall jibes than planing ones. We don't have to be slow or subtle to be smooth.

Many of us, including myself, only think we're being "aggressive and committed" in this quest. My first few thousand jibe attempts stalled at 90 degrees, and only getting PISTOFF enough to mash the rail hard enough to carve past that point drove that point home. When somebody says they can't jibe even though they are starting to use the straps after 5 years of WSing, it is obvious they're hampered by a complete lack of commitment and aggression ... not to mention miles per hour.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1205

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

For the OP's benefit, nothing you (PP) has said changes anything I've said.


Sure it does. For the OP's benefit, let's first point out that any technique or move or choice you can't do, you denigrate (broad jibes, freestyle, early planing). There are twenty years of you doing this online as evidence. Secondly, you are always championing Aggression and physicality, when most everyone working on jibes would do much better if they were less physical and more measured, which is why ever single windsurfing instructional program out there teaches it. You like to portray yourself as an expert, but any review of what you've posted has you as an inefficient high wind intermediate. (You are an awesome typist!). Someone working on jibing sailing a 6.0 on a 110 liter board, for example, is going to get nowhere trying to learn by attempting tight high speed jibes.

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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 612
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Tue Jun 25, 2013 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

for success, even the most powerful athletic maneuvers should be done with grace and balance.
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