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Which Board Size To Improve On?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14311

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another factor is what the OP means by "flat" water. Does that mean no waves, or not even any chop? W/o chop, even very big boards work fine until their bulk starts getting blown around. My 240-litre longboard worked fine hammered on a 3.7 in offshore lake winds averaging well over 30 because the surface was like glass 50 feet offshore. But in the more typical knee-to-thigh-high chop further offshore, 120 L bounced a lot. Thus flotation is just one of several parameters in the mix.

How important is a long slog home if the wind quits? If it's a broad reach, volume matters much less than if it's an upwind slog.

Either way, get something designed to carve jibes easily. Sharp-railed boards built for top speed and/or maximum upwind ability are for top speed and/or maximum upwind ability, not for jibing, carving, or play. Surprise: racy boards are for racing, and need advanced skills (and a competitor, start and finish lines, and horns, so to speak, to make good use of them. IMO, most of us want to learn how to rip off flawless, consistent jibes on a user-friendly board, then transfer those skills to technically demanding thoroughbred boards later when necessary (I haven't found that necessary yet, but I've only been doing this for 33 years).

Mike \m/
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 443

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
Agree with Spennie.

You don't saay whether you've yet 'cracked' waterstarting, but if not, the Kona is a fine board to learn on. It will make it easier to learn (length and volume) by not twitching all over the place as you clumsily (at first) heave yourself up out of the water while not quite properly balanced. Flat water will also help the process.
.


This is partially true. I recently learned with a Kona 1 and I find it is harder to waterstart than a smaller board. The board sits high on the water so you have to keep the sail higher. It is also difficult to move the board around, especially if it's windy since the board is pushed downwind. It is true however that once up, it is quite tolerant of mistakes.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 443

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 3:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Another factor is what the OP means by "flat" water. Does that mean no waves, or not even any chop? W/o chop, even very big boards work fine until their bulk starts getting blown around. My 240-litre longboard worked fine hammered on a 3.7 in offshore lake winds averaging well over 30 because the surface was like glass 50 feet offshore. But in the more typical knee-to-thigh-high chop further offshore, 120 L bounced a lot. Thus flotation is just one of several parameters in the mix.

Mike \m/


This is quite true. I use my Kona with a 6.0 without problems, and I guess I can use it with a 5.0. I miss a smaller board only when the water state is choppy. In such cases, I would like to have a smaller nimbler board to cut a bit more through the chop and also sometimes to get around it easier.

I use a 40cm fin with 6.0 and 7.5 sometimes, so the 39 the OP used is probably too big for use with a 5.0 sail.
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nodak



Joined: 13 Nov 2012
Posts: 94

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 4:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

By "flat" I meant lake sailing. But when it's windy like that it gets to be knee nigh chop, so it's not flat at all.

39cm fin worked great with the 5.0; I maintained control of the board the entire time while on the plane. My mast base was slightly ahead of the mid point on the mast track. Boom was higher as well.

I agree that waterstarting a Kona One is challenging on account of its large dimensions.

Like I said, the centerboard is so stiff to get in and out on Kona One that often I had to drop the sail, crouch down, and retract the centerboard by hand. So there was a lot of extra work to get upwind. Without the centerboard the wind pushed the board sideways while trying to go upwind regardless of what I did with the sail.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3077
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

not going to say I "disagree" with anyone.

In theses case the more input//opinions the better and let the poster figure it out.

In my case I went from long board/centerboard to a 118L shortboard , I could say that the learning curve was steep. I weighted 40lb less that the original quest seeking gentleman.

to say a 120L is going to be better than a 145L , is a wonderful opinion, reminiscent to whats know as Monday morning quarterbacking ..

all with nothing to lose.

In retrospect I might suggest instead GO to straight to a 80L, board, be easier to waterstart.. but far, turns like a rat with nikes , cheap cause half/or more the country can't sail them.

a 5.0 should be the 85L range........
a 110/105 be the smallest of the large

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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1084
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nodak wrote:
My mast base was slightly ahead of the mid point on the mast track. ... Without the centerboard the wind pushed the board sideways while trying to go upwind regardless of what I did with the sail.


Interesting. That shouldn't have been happening, and it makes me think there's some tuning or technique that you could do differently to get upwind better without the daggerboard.

In terms of technique, there are two ways to go upwind without the daggerboard. In contrast with the daggerboard-down mode of steering, neither of these techniques involves tilting the sail forward or back. (The sail should always be tilted pretty far back when sailing without the daggerboard.)

One way is by weighting your heels to tilt the board towards you and digging in the windward edge for resistance. That's the best way if you're not planing.

The other way is to get planing, get in the straps, build up speed, then delicately "ride the fin" while extending your back leg and twisting your body to look upwind in the direction you want to go. The more powered you are, the steeper angle you can go upwind while planing. But if you try to go upwind too steeply you'll stall and slide sideways. It's tough. A big fin helps.

In terms of tuning, with the small sail you might simply not be able to get the "center of effort" of the sail far enough back to match the "center of lateral resistance" provided by the fin. Moving the mast base all the way to the back of the mast track could help.

You definitely want to practice sailing the Kona upwind without the daggerboard, because sailing upwind without the daggerboard is a skill you'll need to have to ride a shortboard.

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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1274
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Nodak,

The below comment is pretty much non sequitur . If you are planing,
in 5.0 wind, the only way you'll go sideways, is if you
spin out. Putting the centerboard all the way down in that much wind
is a really really strange idea. It will work, but keeping your board
from railing up will take some doing, and would be a lot harder than
working upwind on the fin without the center board, so something is not making sense. I don't suppose somebody has a picture of you doing this that you could post? Or even a picture of you planing without the centerboard?

Not trying to be a butthead here, just wondering what's happening.

-Craig



nodak wrote:
Without the centerboard the wind pushed the board sideways while trying to go upwind regardless of what I did with the sail.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14311

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nodak wrote:
By "flat" I meant lake sailing. But when it's windy like that it gets to be knee nigh chop, so it's not flat at all.

That's why I raised the issue. Your western MN Red Lake can probably get waves of 12 to maybe 20 feet high, and our local lakes aka "The Columbia Gorge" can hit 10 feet, so "lake sailing" doesn't tell us much.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1182
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

spennie wrote:
It IS an outstanding board GURGLE, but it will go faster than 25! I went 30.5 mph a week ago, see attached photo. I was using a 7.1 race sail, however, and an MFC 40cm. race fin. Could probably go 35 if I had bigger balls! Anybody know the record?


No offense Spennie, but if you are going to get into GPS windsurfing speed runs get rid of the Garmin. You will want a Navi GT-31 which is the only GPS device recognized by those making runs. The Garmin isn't accurate enough and it also won't give you accurate 10 second average runs which is the standard.

I used to use Garmin and got speeds up into the mid 30's. After changing to the Navi I found my speeds are closer to upper 20's now. Either way, I'm sure you were moving Very Happy

For more info, read here....

http://www.gps-speedsurfing.com/default.aspx?mnu=item&item=gpsdevice
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14311

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
I used to use Garmin and got speeds up into the mid 30's. After changing to the Navi I found my speeds are closer to upper 20's now.

Well, damn, guy ... then the Garmin is the obvious choice! Smile
That Navi obviously slows you down.
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