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Big Oil and citizenship
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5468

PostPosted: Fri Jun 14, 2013 10:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I saw a startling show on Vice this week showing the level of contamination in Nigeria from oil spills. While the Vice episode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JX_W58qBXOw focused on piracy, most of the spills (13 billion barrels) seem to be associated with direct operations.

One might ask if some level of contamination, under the lax regulation scenarios favored by oil company executives in this country, is simply the price we must pay to lift Nigerians out of poverty. Well, no, 60% of the 135 million Nigerians still live, as of 2000, on less than $1/day. A recent thesis on the issue concluded:

Quote:
More than $8billion revenue is generated yearly from oil exploration in the Niger Delta, 70per cent of this revenue is channelled outside the country through the outsourcing of intermediate inputs abroad; indigenes of the region are yet to benefit from the oil-resource. The Nigerian Local Content Policy (LCP) was enacted to serve as an industrial development strategy; creating job opportunities and contracts for domestic firms. The difference-in-differences approach is used to capture the effect on unemployment from 2006-2008 using the training offered by Shell Petroleum Development Company Limited (SPDC) to unemployed youths residing in seven (7) Niger Delta states; this serves as a proxy for the LCP. Results show that the impact of SPDC program on unemployment is insignificant.


The Chair of the Nigerian Senate's Environmental Committee is seeking stronger environmental protections. http://www.globeinternational.org/index.php/blog/item/a-new-law-to-penalise-companies-for-oil-spills-in-nigeria

Do you think the oil companies will support these measures?
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker said:
Quote:
The laws are in place to bust employers. Adding more is unlikely to change things. Neither is more walls or cops .
Enforcement on employers is the single method that can work.
Thee folks are not coming here for the good weather.
Mexico is not the only example of countries that stop illegals by arresting employers.
It works.


Exactly. The issue isn't laws, it's enforcement. I don't know what the current penalty is for employers that get caught hiring illegals, but since there essentially isn't ANY enforcement, the penalty doesn't matter.

If there were no jobs for illegals, because no one would hire them, border crossings would be much less of an issue. Why cross = no work, no money.

Crossing for a path to citizenship may be another thing. Sorry again, but I believe that the complexity of this thing will be staggering.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14464

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
The issue isn't laws, it's enforcement. I don't know what the current penalty is for employers that get caught hiring illegals, but since there essentially isn't ANY enforcement, the penalty doesn't matter.

If there were no jobs for illegals, because no one would hire them, border crossings would be much less of an issue. Why cross = no work, no money.

Once again, a nationally known M&A broker (buys and sells mid-sized corporations) told me years ago (after Regan gave them amnesty but before Bush and especially Obama wrecked the economy), and hasn't changed his tune, that the day illegals are actually banned from the work force is the day services cease across the U.S. and the economy just stops dead in its immobile tracks, taking years to rebuild, to much higher price levels, even in a healthy economy. His source was the hundreds of CEOs he services.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Assuming what iso says is true, that clearly explains the lack of enforcement. Political leaders would not likely admit to this, even if they knew it was true.

So what happens if the illegals don't buy into the reform and choose to stay on the same track, knowing that enforcement for law abiding illegals is non existent?

All of this may just be political pandering to the Latinos to get their votes.

What you don't hear much about, but is out there are the legal Latinos that have trouble finding work because the illegals fill all the manual labor jobs at lower wages. Not all Latinos want the reform.

If I am an employer looking for skilled or unskilled labor, knowing that there is no enforcement of the immigration laws, why would I hire a legal worker at $7 per hour when I have an unlimited supply of illegal workers at $4 per hour?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3522

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The lack of enforcement is because of the purchase of officials by those those employers.
There is not the slightest chance that ALL illegals will leave their jobs on that same day, any more than enforcing murder has caused all murders to halt.
We are being conned by those who created the illegal problem and want it to continue because they have power and want more money and find lobbyists to be a better investment than paying young Americans to work.
I have seen flyers in Latin America offering to truck you up to work illegally in Arizona, circulated by employers.


Last edited by keycocker on Sat Jun 15, 2013 6:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5966

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900, I think the thing that you keep overlooking is that legal residency and eventual citizenship will be predicated on a well documented history of both work and residency. It's not like a fresh flow of illegal immigrants can easily continue to upset the game plan as they have for years. However, as many of us seem to agree, a strict identification system must be instituted and enforced. Of course, it's still possible for new illegals to find a way in and attempt to find employment from private citizens that ignore new laws. However, if strong enforcement of known day laborer sites is employed, that would make it awfully tough to find work. Without regular work, it's pretty hard to live here.

Even if immigration reform is passed, there can be many problematic issues that arise. One not mentioned a lot is direct family presently located in Mexico and other Hispanic nations. I don't know what the ratio is for males versus female illegal immigrants now here, but I think it's safe to say that there is more likely to be significantly more males. How do we address a potentially high number of direct family members like wives and children currently living outside the US? While an illegal immigrant might elect legal residency and a potential path to citizenship, that person will undoubtedly want to bring their family here. What will the limits be? Just wives, husbands and children, or would that be expanded to also include parents, brothers and sisters? No doubt, a tough issue to grapple with.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1858
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat Jun 15, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Assuming what iso says is true, that clearly explains the lack of enforcement. Political leaders would not likely admit to this, even if they knew it was true.

So what happens if the illegals don't buy into the reform and choose to stay on the same track, knowing that enforcement for law abiding illegals is non existent?

All of this may just be political pandering to the Latinos to get their votes.

What you don't hear much about, but is out there are the legal Latinos that have trouble finding work because the illegals fill all the manual labor jobs at lower wages. Not all Latinos want the reform.

If I am an employer looking for skilled or unskilled labor, knowing that there is no enforcement of the immigration laws, why would I hire a legal worker at $7 per hour when I have an unlimited supply of illegal workers at $4 per hour?

We have all the field workers we need already, but they are too busy sitting all day long, watching TV, playing cards, and pumping iron in our prisons. Put those lazy cons to work!!!

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14464

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
We have all the field workers we need

Not around here in one of the nation's foremost agricultural areas. Some crops rot in the fields due to unavailability of labor. Most Americans are too lazy to accept the hardships the migrant pickers endure, including living on the ground and working six days a week from I-think-I-can-see-light until late evening. And why should they, when the government pays them to sit on their asses and guarantees them ever-bigger bucks to flip burgers?
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1518

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler said:
Quote:
techno900, I think the thing that you keep overlooking is that legal residency and eventual citizenship will be predicated on a well documented history of both work and residency.

I am not overlooking this, but it's hard for me to imagine the staffing needs and bureaucracy to manage this and get it right. How many of the 11 million have "a well documented history of work and residency" with their real name?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5966

PostPosted: Sun Jun 16, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I mentioned earlier, let's transfer those existing government employees working on the War on Drugs to a more productive and useful effort managing our illegal immigrant problem. The War on Drugs has proven to be such a worthless effort that never had a chance of success, so let's change gears and get things on the right track. For more serious drug problems, let's let the local county sheriffs and city police handle it. Also, through legalization of marijuana, there's not only a great source of tax revenue to fund many useful projects, but that would easily free up police resources to focus on more serious crimes.
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