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The obstructionist party, GOP, being flushed out? Healthcare
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6034

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to disagree pueno, I'm sure that mrgybe worked very hard to get ahead, and I seriously doubt that he is receiving any kind of financial assistance from the government. However, while he probably wouldn't admit it, he knows that taxes in the US are a real deal, especially given the quality of life and freedom here.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3539

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't a reasonable way to speak to Mr.Gybe.
I am not here because of something the US Gov. is currently buying for me that I don't get elsewhere.
I live here because of the life Americans have created for themselves is my favorite way to live.
I don't notice the government buying that life for me with my tax money.
America is not great because it has a great Government, that is sure.
One of the things I like best is the way Gybe can say anything he wants about the Prez or the Gov. no matter how much it annoys me and some others.
Some posts are supplying him with opinions and breaking other rules above.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3539

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This isn't a reasonable way to speak to Mr.Gybe.
I am not here because of something the US Gov. is currently buying for me that I don't get elsewhere.
I live here because of the life Americans have created for themselves is my favorite way to live.
I don't notice the government buying that life for me with my tax money.
America is not great because it has a great Government, that is sure.
One of the things I like best is the way Gybe can say anything he wants about the Prez or the Gov. no matter how much it annoys me and some others.
Some posts are supplying him with opinions and breaking other rules above.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2768

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
I have to disagree pueno, I'm sure that mrgybe worked very hard to get ahead, and I seriously doubt that he is receiving any kind of financial assistance from the government. However, while he probably wouldn't admit it, he knows that taxes in the US are a real deal, especially given the quality of life and freedom here.

Sorry, what I was trying to say is that he had help when he arrived (that help paid by taxes), and now because of his hard work, he continues to do well. Congrats to him.

Many -- including me -- have worked hard and continue to work hard, paying taxes the whole way. Those taxes pay for the benefits of living in America.

But when something unfortunate happens in our lives and we need a helping hand, it's nice to know the govt is there. It IS offensive to learn that a few people live their lives taking unfair advantage of this assistance when it's not really needed.

Some people are delighted to receive that help during a rough spot but then deny that same help for others or resent the taxes that pays for that help.
.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2899

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
Sorry, what I was trying to say is that he had help when he arrived (that help paid by taxes)

Please explain.

pueno wrote:
It IS offensive to learn that a few people live their lives taking unfair advantage of this assistance when it's not really needed.

Please explain how I have taken unfair advantage of taxpayer funded assistance.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14632

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's obvious: Just like Romney, GE, Apple, every other legitimate taxpayer, and every armed services veteran, you followed the laws and regulations enacted by the U.S. government. Shame on you.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2409

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
It's obvious: Just like Romney, GE, Apple, every other legitimate taxpayer, and every armed services veteran, you followed the laws and regulations enacted by the U.S. government. Shame on you.


Nice to see you agree with government laws and regulations.

_________________
/w\
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC--let's be realistic and well informed. Mrgybe has bragged endlessly about his successful career in the oil industry and the virtues of Exxon, belittling others as unaccomplished. (and thereby forfeiting any claim he might have to courtesy in return.) It's great that he made money, and the oil industry is very good at what it does. But let's not pretend that it does not benefit from US and State tax and land use policies, and direct subsidies for infrastructure. Some of those subsidies are visible, and debated in the press, with a vigorous defense by the oil lobby. Others are less visible. Let's take a look:

1. There are an array of tax expenses, some similar to other companies, others different, that are estimated to total $7.5 billion. http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/03/americas-most-obvious-tax-reform-idea-kill-the-oil-and-gas-subsidies/274121/

2. Most oil resources developed in the United States come from public lands, whether offshore or in the Federal reserves. Lease sales for these, while competitive to some degree, are often held when the market is saturated, minimizing the prices that the leases return to the United States treasury. Other uses for those lands, held in trust for us all, are often displaced without compensation. Federal policies require states to provide for oil facilities--that was the basic tradeoff in the coastal management Act adopted by Congress.

3. Both national policy, and national defenses, have provided for oil security--not merely in the Middle East, but in many hostile parts of the world. While oil companies pay some of the security costs, and their employees take risks in many hostile countries, the overall cost of oil security is staggering, and is paid for with general taxes, not taxes associated with the consumption of the product.

4. Exxon and other energy companies transport their products using the American transportation system, built by taxpayers. The largest energy port complex in the country is in Los Angeles and Long Beach--built and maintained by taxpayers. Your daily gasoline is transported by trucks and pipelines--usually on publicly owned rights of way.

The list could go on. I am not suggesting that some of these policies are not rational. But I am suggesting that the oil industry, like much of American business, professes a libertarian philosophy while relying on government infrastructure that it does not always pay for. Thus, the benefits to the oligarchs who complain about the government are derived, in part, from the government. His companies definitely did not build all of that.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2768

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
Please explain.

Your words: "I chose to come to this country and to jump through all the hoops it takes over many years to become a citizen. My clownish accuser inherited what I had to expend considerable effort to obtain."

On the one hand, America offered you an opportunity and path to citizenship, which you took and accomplished.

On the other hand, that opportunity and the services required for your success didn't grow on trees -- it was funded by tax revenues.

You're repaying America's investment in you by the taxes you pay today.


mrgybe wrote:
pueno wrote:
It IS offensive to learn that a few people live their lives taking unfair advantage of this assistance when it's not really needed.

Please explain how I have taken unfair advantage of taxpayer funded assistance.

You misinterpreted my words -- I did not say you, specifically, unfairly exploited "the system." My statement was a generalization, and it may be one area where we agree. I intensely dislike it when others unfairly and selfishly exploit the generosity of America's social safety net -- taking welfare, food stamps, assistance, disability, unemployment, and so on, when they are perfectly fit (and have the opportunity) to work, earn, contribute to society, and pay taxes.

However, that said, I'm also equally annoyed that some people hurl that insult--that all liberals are "takers," for example--where it doesn't belong.
.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2899

PostPosted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno wrote:
On the one hand, America offered you an opportunity and path to citizenship, which you took and accomplished. On the other hand, that opportunity and the services required for your success didn't grow on trees -- it was funded by tax revenues.

You're repaying America's investment in you by the taxes you pay today.

Ah.....the old "you didn't build that" mantra again. What utter nonsense. "America" didn't offer me an opportunity or invest in me........a corporation did..........a corporation that, like a multitude of others, paid the taxes that funded the roads and the services provided by government workers. I have never taken a penny of government assistance, and, the high six figure income taxes I have paid every year since coming here more than compensate for my use of pot-hole filled, congested roads.

pueno wrote:
You misinterpreted my words -- I did not say you, specifically, unfairly exploited "the system.

Stop wriggling boy!!

pueno wrote:
However, that said, I'm also equally annoyed that some people hurl that insult--that all liberals are "takers," for example--where it doesn't belong.

Since I have never said that, it seems you are being careless with your generalizations again. But you have already characterized me as "dumb" so perhaps I simply don't understand the subtlety of your comments.
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