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Planing 101 question.
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
no short board need apply to help in this situation. all one has to do is raise the boom, and move back the lines. i've sailed those boards. i've sailed their modern counterparts. simply try what i and one other suggested, and we'll see. modern sails blend well with the old era race boards. the mast base issue was never as much an issue as older short boards as far as their mast track locations were concerned.

Good luck to every beginner trying to make this board plane with a 7.0 unless its pretty windy and then he will get catapulted immediately.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 5:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well ady... I'm going with JingeB on this one Smile
Here's some clarification, to your post -
"Good luck to every beginner trying to make this board plane with a 7.0 unless its pretty windy and then he will get catapulted immediately."

The original poster, Steve, is not a beginner. He's sailed 4 years. He's experienced planning. He uses a harness when it's windy enough. He's been in the footstraps. None of that describes a beginner... in fact those experiences and skills make him an intermediate to advanced windsurfer in many schools.

And I don't know why you say, he'll get catapulted if it's windy enough for him to plane with a 7M sail on a raceboard (Ultra Cat). Raceboards go very smoothly from sub-planning to planning. You're sailing along, and then you go faster, and then more fast, and if it's windy enough... all of a sudden you realize you're planning. Certainly no reason to be catapulted from that.
A catapult would be much more likely with a subplaning short and very wide board. You're going along, waiting for enough wind to pop you up on a plane. Well, when that happens, be ready, cause there's gonna be a PULL - TUG from the boom. Control it right and you're planning. Don't control it and you get launched.
ALSO, at his weight, he will plane on that board in just 2 mph more wind, than a FW with the same sail and the same sailor.
I have both a FW and a '93 F2 Lightning raceboard... and I sail the RB along side friends with FW quite often. And with guys the same size and skill, using the same rig, sailing on a beam to broad reach... we plane in about the same wind. I might need 1 mph more, but it's very close.

Greg -
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 183
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 6:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NEVER get rid of that board !!!
ESPECIALLY if you are in a light wind area
So far this year it has been my most used board
in winds under 15 knots it is my go to board and ESPECIALLY on small inland lakes
i will keep mine until i find a replacement
i go when and where NO-ONE else can go !!!
it is the BOMB
as i am heavier i use a TR-6 8.4 with mine - all the time - light or heavier winds
it is a pleasure in light winds and when planing
it has given me MANY SMILES
just keep at it - you are well on the right track OP !!
here is my discussion of the board
http://joewindsurfer.blogspot.ca/2011/09/fanatic-ultra-cat.html
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dhmark



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 215

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't understand the advice to move the lines back. If they are in balance for the amount of wind, moving them back will make them out of balance. Also since the board is not that wide, the boom height is not that much of a factor since you are not distant from from the mast. I think the OP is sheeting in too much too early in conditions where there was plenty of wind, then just got overpowered, catapulted. When you can feel there is enough wind to plane, it is nice to settle in the back straps first at good speed, then sit down fully loaded to get that last burst. Always be ready to back off if you're feel like its going to be too much, then sit down again slightly less sheeted in if too much power. dhmark
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14140

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:
A catapult would be much more likely with a subplaning short and very wide board.

I've long compared that to standing knee-deep in mud while grabbing at busses passing on the freeway. The pull on our arms depends on the power on our sail minus the drag of our hull, which can get pretty dramatic on sinky and/or rounded hulls.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14140

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhmark wrote:
When you can feel there is enough wind to plane, it is nice to settle in the back straps first at good speed, then sit down fully loaded to get that last burst. Always be ready to back off if you're feel like its going to be too much, then sit down again slightly less sheeted in if too much power.

Yup. Our accelerators at that stage are in our back hand and our butt, so to speak. Given sufficient power, sheeting in and loading the harness light up the afterburners. Once we get used to harnessing that, we learn to use it to our advantage, sheeting and loading MORE, rather than less, when we feel like it's going to be too much. Quickly unloading and unsheeting promotes instability and catapults and kills speed.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get off the Cat and on to your Rocket. Yes its going to feel strange at first.
But that is the next step for you. At 125 liters, your Rocket has enough float to up haul and get you back to shore. Keep the Cat for the light wind days
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, thank you for the long board enlightening! Now can you please ask yourself : What is he doing with the tanker in a 20+mph wind? Or let me use a metaphor : Why is he wasting a Porshe engine in a John Deere tractor trying to drive fast on a highway with no speed limit while leaving the Porshe to gather dust in his garage?
Because it is much more fun? I don't think so! I think the OP is still afraid to drive the Porshe after 4 years and I'm not talking racing it. C'mon people don't you see - he has the perfect combination : 7.0 Retro; 120 Roket; 20 mph wind ... and takes the tanker out ??!! You've got to be kidding me!
You know, you are not helping him, you are holding him back with your long board agendas .
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ady... not saying your point doesn't have merit... it does have some...

However, you are not in Seattle. I have been sailing here in the same area where the OP lives, since 1981... and teaching and club racing and more...

Like joe said, "If you are in a lightwind area, than keep the Cat".
And YES, we are... (generally... you can find a bit more sometimes, but not regularly).

ALSO, a Fanatic Ultra Cat is NOT a tractor or a tanker. It is in a class of longboards, called raceboards. (I'm sure you probably know this, sorry. Just saying it cause many people don't.) This is still a popular class with very active clubs and racing in many parts of the world (but not so popular in the US). This board is light and fast. And in 20 mph winds with the right rig and sailor... it's just about like any basic slalom board... similar speed on a beam to broad reach.

You say, "What is he doing with the tanker in a 20+mph wind?"
I'll tell you what he doing. He is NOT in steady 20 + mph wind. Seattle doesn't have steady 20 mph winds (usually). He was probably in winds gusting from 10 to 20. His post says he was probably in winds about 20. But I know that means, they were probably 10 - 20.

A raceboard (or a FW if you have more skill) is awesome in those conditions !!!
A shortboard is boring I think. Yes, you will get some planning rides. But you will also spend lots of time slogging, going almost nowhere.

ALSO... he is sailing in Puget Sound which has tidal currents, coming and going. And with the very likely possibility that winds can drop and become unreliable at any moment... he is being VERY SMART to sail his raceboard. An Ultra Cat will go as fast as a wide shortboard (almost... for most people)... so he'll have fun and practice things, while planning.
BUT... when the wind lightens up, and or, the current gets the best of him... he can easily put the centerboard down and sail any direction he wants (to get back to his launch). When that happens to you on a slogging shortboard... you are in for a not-so-fun adventure. I'm sure you've experienced this, as I have.

Next, you're right when you say he has a great combo with the Rocket and 7M Retro. And I agree "he is ready" to get comfortable sailing that. But, it should be in Lk. Wash... or a summer trip to Hood River... in either case with 20 mph winds... (with others keeping an eye on him). But it's not such a good idea to take that combo out with his experience, by himself, in Puget Sound.

ady - I don't know what you mean by someone having a "longboard agenda"?

Personally, I have a windsurfing agenda. I learned how to waterstart in Hood River in 1984 and have loved sailing shortboards since then. I have 4 shortboards these days, 3 of them I use quite a bit. I also have a formula... and I have a couple longboards.

Anyway, for variable conditions between 2 and 25 mph, there's nothing more efficient and fast and fun... than a raceboard.
Now... Seattle doesn't regularly get high winds, but if you want a lot of TOW, around a busy family and work schedule, then you have to get out when you can. And here locally, that means you will go out in lots of 2 to 15 (sometimes 20) winds. That's what I've been doing here for over 30 years. Plus, I get some occasional high winds during winter storms... a couple of weekends a summer to Hood River... and several very cool windsurfing vacations around the world spread out over 30 years.

A raceboard like Steve's, has the widest usable wind-range of any design. And they're not slow... I've gone 30 mph on mine several times.
However it's work to sail them in gusty winds from 20 - 30. A fun shortboard is easer then.

Anyway, Steve the OP has two very good boards for his weight and for where he lives. He should keep and use them both... but he could use a couple more sails.

Greg Smile
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 437

PostPosted: Mon May 13, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhmark wrote:
I don't understand the advice to move the lines back. If they are in balance for the amount of wind, moving them back will make them out of balance.


The advice was to move the boom up AND the lines back. If you move the boom up, the lines will have to go back a bit to keep the balance.
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