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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14037

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah, MrGybe, but your mudder still wears combat boots.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 897
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Yeah, MrGybe, but your mudder still wears combat boots.

?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14037

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just preempting mac's standard response to Mrgybe's proving him wrong.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2632

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Yeah, MrGybe, but your mudder still wears combat boots.

Gosh, Mikey, when you're right, you're right.

It's not often that you get it right -- so, on those very rare occasions, you deserve credit.

Congratulations.

Still, you're funny. Laughing Laughing Laughing
.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5120

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let's go back to the original screed by mrgybe about the unreasonable court case in New Hampshire, and see what the news media said:

Quote:
The $236 million Exxon Mobil verdict is the third-biggest in the U.S. this year, behind the $524 million awarded in a Nevada lawsuit against two units of UnitedHealth Inc. involving a negligent doctor, and one from February for $400 million in a price-fixing case against Dow Chemical Co (DOW). that is subject to tripling under U.S. antitrust law.

New Hampshire Attorney General Michael Delaney said at a press conference yesterday that the award was the largest verdict obtained by New Hampshire in the history of the state.

“We have made history with this case,” he said. In light of Exxon Mobil’s expected appeal, Delaney said he didn’t yet have details on how or when the money will be spent. “Our plan is to present a comprehensive proposal.”

Exxon Mobil told New Hampshire jurors that it was complying with a federal mandate to reduce air pollution when it used MTBE. The additive made gasoline burn more thoroughly, thus reducing air pollution from vehicle emissions, as required under the 1990 Clean Air Act.

The company also argued that fuel distributors had adequate warnings about the risks of MTBE and that the chemical hadn’t harmed anyone in the state.

Ethanol Possible

New Hampshire’s witnesses testified that oil companies could have used a chemical other than MTBE to increase the oxygen content of the fuel, such as ethanol. They said that Exxon Mobil’s own research showed MTBE would contaminate groundwater and be very costly and difficult to remove.

Exxon Mobil said ethanol wasn’t a good choice as an additive, because at the time of the federal mandate it wasn’t widely available. The company said it went ahead with MTBE even after a staff memo warning of its hazards because the benefits, in reducing air pollution, outweighed the risks.

Studies by the American Petroleum Institute were cited in court showing that at mid-to-high levels of ingestion or inhalation MTBE elevated the risk of brain tumors, liver cancer, blood cancer and kidney cancer in mice and rats. Exxon Mobil said there was no evidence of MTBE-caused illness in humans.

Highly Soluble

MTBE, which New Hampshire banned in January 2007, is highly soluble in water and can be carried a great distance from the source of leaks. It leaked from gas stations, vehicle junkyards, underground storage tanks and pipe fittings, the state said.

The state estimated that 5,590 New Hampshire wells have levels of MTBE determined to be unfit for drinking. That level is 13 parts of MTBE per billion parts of water, the state said.


Hmm, Exxon's own research showed that MTBE would contaminate the groundwater? Do you suppose that their executives used that information carefully?

And then there is this:

Quote:
Opening day in MBTE contamination trial starts with combative exchanges

By DAVE SOLOMON
New Hampshire Union Leader

CONCORD - Attorneys for Citgo Petroleum Corp. called for a mistrial on Monday only half way into the first day of what many observers believe is the largest civil trial in New Hampshire history.

Superior Court Justice Judge Peter H. Fauver denied the motion, but agreed to address the jury today regarding statements made by the state's lead attorney in her opening arguments.

The case pits the state of New Hampshire against ExxonMobile and Citgo over the use of the gasoline additive MTBE, which the state alleges has caused widespread groundwater contamination. New Hampshire sued 22 oil and gas companies in late 2003 over MTBE, but settled with all but two in the ensuing years.

The state's lead attorney, Jessica Grant of the San Francisco law firm Sher-Leff, displayed for the jury several memos and letters, which she said indicated ExxonMobile and Citgo executives were well aware of the dangers posed by MTBE, but continued to manufacture and distribute gasoline containing the toxic chemical for years.


Exxon's defense, for the 5000 wells that have been contaminated? The State should have known. After all Exxon did.

If anyone wants to know what oxygenates are used in gasoline--largely only ethanol now that the MTBE problems are known to those outside the Exxon labs--you can check here: http://www.arb.ca.gov/fuels/gasoline/pub/oxyrprt.pdf

But some apologists for the gasoline industry seem unconcerned about the cancer risk to so much of the public, and describe ethanol as a terrible idea.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3325

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CO2 in the atmosphere has reached the highest measured level in the history of the human race going back perhaps a million years.
I am not certain of human caused global warming, but I am sure that building a fire in the fireplace and turning the furnace on to 100 is not a good idea on a hot summer day.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5120

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KC--I first heard about global warming from Charles Keeling of Scripps, more than 30 years ago. http://sio.ucsd.edu/keeling/ It seemed like a pretty whacky idea to me at the time. It is a result of his research that a CO2 monitoring station was set up in Hawaii, and the news yesterday is that we have reached CO2 levels not seen for 3 million years. It is interesting that George W. Bush gave him the National Medal of Science. Of course mrgybe and Isobars have Lord Monckton on their side.

You can see actual data (I know, not as good as an opinion from Glenn Beck) here; the file is too big to post:http://www.climatecentral.org/gallery/graphics/keeling_curve
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marleneelliott



Joined: 30 Apr 2013
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that article on bin laden and al gore is a little funny…Lol. aussie pokies
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5120

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
By David Perlman

May 24, 2013

With critical problems from climate change to overpopulation threatening the world's environment, scientists at UC Berkeley and Stanford led a call by more than 500 of their international colleagues Thursday for more urgent action to combat the global threats.

Spurred by Gov. Jerry Brown, the Bay Area scientists said their declaration was a renewed challenge to governments and policymakers in every nation to resolve these five major issues:
-- Climate disruption: The world now faces "more, faster climate change than (at any time) since humans became a species," the scientists said in their declaration.

-- Extinction: "Not since the dinosaurs went extinct have so many species died out so fast, both on land and in the oceans."

-- Ecosystems: "We have plowed, paved, or otherwise transformed more than 40 percent of Earth's ice-free land."

-- Pollution: "Environmental contaminants in the air, water and land are at record levels and increasing, seriously harming people and wildlife in unforeseen ways."

-- Population growth: "Seven billion people alive today will likely grow to 9.5 billion by 2050," posing consumption pressures that may well prove dangerous, the scientists warned.

"By the time today's children reach middle age, it is extremely likely that Earth's life-support systems, critical for human prosperity and existence, will be irretrievably damaged by the magnitude, global extent, and combination of these human-caused environmental stressors, unless we take concrete, immediate actions to ensure a sustainable, high-quality future," the scientists said.


Hmm--500 renowned scientists. And on the other side? Lord Monckton, Glen Beck, Senator James Inhofe, and mrgybe. Impressive. Maybe they can hold the flat earth meetings in mrgybe's living room?
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1330

PostPosted: Sun May 26, 2013 4:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't the biggest single human threat to the atmosphere the ever increasing number of commercial aircraft filling the skies, and whizzing half the worlds population here, there, and everywhere? And all for what?

If the projected increase in the worlds population (9.5 billion by 2050) further adds to the number of polluting flights, why should I be taxed out of being able to use my low polluting 'super mini' car to drive to my nearest winsurfing beach and back, just because all these selfish globe trotters demand jam on it?

Of course, a happy thought might be that the significant warming effect of all this increasing air traffic pollution may mitigate, and slightly offset, the coming mini ice age.

One has to think positive!!
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