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How many died last year in the US while kiting ?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14051

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
The fireman who took over the situation with the help of the cops just stood around and debated what to do, in their rubber boots, hard hats, and fire retardant jackets.

Slightly similar situation here. I saw a motorcycle soar off a 40' cliff into a lake near me, sailed over to offer help to the police trying to find and retrieve the body before it drifted down towards the dam. I knew exactly where he had entered the water, and am a good diver, but they were more angered than interested at my silly idea of applying the right tools and knowledge to the challenge.

gregnw44 wrote:
But we're not comparing kiting to skiing or motorcycles. We're comparing it to windsurfing.

We could, in a limited and subjective way. Utah had thousands of motorcycle racers running about 75 desert, MX, and oval track races each year for the decade I lived there. The desert races were hundreds of racers covering 100-150 miles per race in incredible virgin terrain at speeds up to 100 mph. No one was killed or crippled. ONE man got killed several years later.

and he wrote:
totally agree with mat-ty's points about being smart, getting good training, practicing a lot, only go in the right conditions, etc. And then, you're going to be fine.

Many of the maimed and dead kiters were experts and/or careful ones. Telephone poles, buildings, jetties, etc. are very unforgiving of human errors made while harnessed to that much power.

Besides, who wants to limit is fun to the "right conditions"?
Oh, yes ... old farts like myself who takes months to heal.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 689

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:


But for clarification, you can't kite in less wind than you can windsurf in!!!
-

Technically you may be correct but who wants to sail in 5 MPH wind?
One thing I have noticed is often when the wind dies off for windsurfing if I look up in the trees there is still wind up where the kites are.
There are kites up to 21M for ultra light winds.
Do you think you could windsurf in these conditions?
http://vimeo.com/16015030#
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 183
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i had seen that one before and is one of my favourite kite videos
however, that 15 m kite seems to skim over the water dangerously close to dropping a number of times Sad

this is my favourite kite race video:
https://vimeo.com/52493924#at=0

glad this post is losing its morbidity and showing a positive approach to kiting Smile
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14051

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very few of the kiters indigenous to my usual haunts bother to launch until it's blowing in the mid to upper teens ... and some of them absolutely RIP when big expert WSers are hammered on 3.0s.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5774

PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2013 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I get the feeling that there's something going on in the video which isn't evident in the visuals. Maybe it's due to the shallowness of the water, the direction of the wind or a combination of both.

On at least one occasion here in Santa Barbara, a large aircraft carrier was anchored a distance offshore. It was downwind, so that wasn't an issue, but the longshore current was bringing in a slick of sorts upwind to our location. In the slick areas, the water was like glass, and the wind was virtually invisible on it. I was very powered up on an 8.1.

I once had a very similar experience under the Golden Gate Bridge on a flood tide. In a fairly good sized area spanning the middle section of the bridge, the water was as flat as a board and extra smooth. Smaller board and a 5.2, and I was lit.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
gregnw44 wrote:


But for clarification, you can't kite in less wind than you can windsurf in!!!
-

Technically you may be correct but who wants to sail in 5 MPH wind?
One thing I have noticed is often when the wind dies off for windsurfing if I look up in the trees there is still wind up where the kites are.
There are kites up to 21M for ultra light winds.
Do you think you could windsurf in these conditions?
http://vimeo.com/16015030#


"... but who wants to sail in 5 mph wind?"
* When windsurfing was the most popular (which was between the years of '75 to '95) around the world... 100's of thousands of people, mostly windsurfed in those light winds.
* I do, quite often.
* I got an email this morning from a guy who lives near me... he's very busy, having very little free time... but still wants to get out and windsurf. He thanked me for pointing him towards a good longboard. He had a great time yesterday, in beautiful and warm weather in Seattle in the typical light winds.
* On the other hand... Many around the world do NOT want to sail in light winds, and that's totally fine. I get it, I also like to plane fast across the water. But if you don't live in a WINDY spot (most of the world) yet you still want to windsurf close to home, if you have a brief break from a busy family and work life... then you're going to sail in light winds. Or don't, that's totally cool. But we shouldn't show any disdain or lack of respect, etc. to those that enjoy sailing light winds.
Greg Smile

PS - BTW b-buddy I'm not at all suggesting that your post was disrespectful, cause it wasn't. It's just that we should all be tolerant and helpful to any windsurfer, no matter what style or type they like to do (or have time to do).
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 246

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks B-buddy that's a very cool video. Great editing and sweet photography !!!

And I agree with swchandler -
"I get the feeling that there's something going on in the video which isn't evident in the visuals. Maybe it's due to the shallowness of the water, the direction of the wind or a combination of both."

Yeah, I also don't know why there are scenes with mirror water, also could be a wall just upwind of him. Therefore water on this side is flat calm, but his kite still gets the light wind up high. Anyway, I'm with swchandler, something very unusual and cool here Smile
At 17 sec to 24 sec you see weeds on the ground blowing... there IS some wind... even on the ground.
At 38 sec. he's walking into the water with an off-shore wind. And there are ripples right at the beach. But a ways out it's glass. Something is going on there, a break-water of some sort. Or a current there perfectly matching the wind direction.
At 1:12 that board is "barely" planning, if he drops speed 1 mph he's IN the water.
At 4:30 - 4:40 he is just about dropping off a plane.
At 4:42 you see the true ripples.
At 4:47 you still see the weeds blowing.

Anyway, an awesome video. And like his title says, "Mirrors, a flat water dream". He made this specially to show himself kiting in no wind... an illusion, a dream. Beautiful, dreamy, mirror-like water. But he knows there's some wind. He's just gone somewhere, that gives the illusion there's no wind. And edited in those parts.

He's also a smaller guy, look at him and his Subaru Impreza... he's about 5'7" and 165 lbs.... possibly less... anyway, he's not a heavyweight.
Still, it's VERY impressive to me. He's a smaller guy riding some very big h-tech kite gear, in light winds, and planning (at least in the scenes that he left in).

Could I windsurf in that, absolutely. And if I was 165# with my 1991 Aerotech 11.0 sail and using a new Starboard Serenity, I'd be going pretty good. ALTHOUGH, NOT AS FAST AS THIS GUY. No question about it, that's very impressive.

But I'd like to see him do that, out in the middle of a bay or big lake. Never. He'll do it there, cause it's a shallow little pond... if the wind drops from 5 to 2, he'll just walk back.
But I've sailed longboards lots of time in 5... when it later dropped to 2... and I just sailed back. Or if I'm in a hurry, I can pump my way back, a bit faster.
Anyway, this light weight guy planning (barely) with HUGE kite gear in light winds is going faster than a windsurfer would, like I said, thanks for sharing... it's very impressive.

The only unfortunate part is, guys will see vids like this (or kinda similar windsurfing vids). And they'll go buy new expensive hi-tech gear, thinking they can sail it in almost nothing. And then get going away from their beach with a slight gust... only to get out 1/4 mile, and drop in the water... and have to swim back or get rescued.

I was sailing a Starboard Phantom raceboard with an 8.5 race in Baja last Nov in moderate wind. I was the only one out and was only planning some of the time, going pretty good the rest the time, but not planning.
Some kiters on the beach had been watching me. Finally one launched and we sailed around just a bit, we were going about the same, he couldn't do any jumps. But shortly, the wind dropped, barely, I hardly noticed it. But his kite hit dropped to the water. He tried a long time to get it going... but was drifting farther away, finally a boat came out and got him.
It's all physics... there aren't too many short-cuts... except in your dreams Smile
Greg -
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1065

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is another great video of light wind kiting/suping. The nice thing about this concept of super light wind kiting is if you get skunked and the kite drops you can pack up the kite and hand paddle home on your sup board.


http://masskiting.com/kitesurfing-videos/light-wind-kiteboarding-fone
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KevinDo



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 412
Location: Cabrillo Inside

PostPosted: Mon May 06, 2013 9:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
Here is another great video of light wind kiting/suping. The nice thing about this concept of super light wind kiting is if you get skunked and the kite drops you can pack up the kite and hand paddle home on your sup board.


http://masskiting.com/kitesurfing-videos/light-wind-kiteboarding-fone


That actually looks pretty cool!
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actionsportsmaui



Joined: 18 Mar 2004
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2013 1:09 am    Post subject: where can we find the source information on this topic? Reply with quote

I was trying to find the answer to this question in this thread, and saw a link to danews, which has a link back to the SFBA safety bulletin, which seems to suggest that the CoastGuard said in their bulletin "MSIB 13-03" that Seventeen (17) people died in kiteboarding incidents in the United States in 2012. But when I read MSIB 13-03 I could not find this statistic. I would like to know where is these alarming statistics come from and where can we find the source information on this topic.
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