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the big lie "the media is liberal"
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slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 430
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bush ran and hid in a bunker somewhere. All day and night as we were watching the news, my wife kept asking,"where is our president?" No word from him for at least a day. Some leader.

Highjacked planes flew around for hours, with no orders ever given to intercept said planes, even after the twin towers were hit.

In the year prior to 9-11 jets intercepted suspected highjacked planes over 60 times. No explanation has ever been given for this horrendous failure.
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 1000
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority."
- G.W. Bush, 3/13/02

where was the so called liberal media plastering this statement in the headlines in every paper, every TV for months for such irresponsible ignorant despicable support of the taliban. This moron is a traitor....

can you imagine if a black president said something like this. again this president before he even stepped into office had a 400% increase in death threats over any other president in the history of america. This is before he even was sworn in...
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14484

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bush did exactly what POTUS protocol required in the event of a widespread attack: head straight for one or more of the dozens of underground and flying bunkers designed expressly for that purpose. Some of these bunkers hold small but complete cities thousands of feet underground; we've seen their interiors on the History or Discovery Channel. He took AF1 to the Offutt AFB bunker. Even the airborne bunkers have global communication capabilities ranging from highly classified state-of-the-art digital marvels (useless after an EMP attack) to ham radio (only primitive analog electronics, if that, will function after a successful EMP attack).

You can't lead if you're dead.

How do you know what orders the military had?

Dude, you need to get off those stupid websites. They're brainwashing you.

Popular Mechanics magazine did exhaustive studies of everything from the Tower collapses to the airplane myths of 9/11. From
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military/news/debunking-911-myths-planes , two of those myths are:

No Stand-Down Order
Claim: No fighter jets were scrambled from any of the 28 Air Force bases within close range of the four hijacked flights. "On 11 September Andrews had two squadrons of fighter jets with the job of protecting the skies over Washington D.C.," says the Web site emperors-clothes.com. "They failed to do their job." "There is only one explanation for this," writes Mark R. Elsis of StandDown.net. "Our Air Force was ordered to Stand Down on 9/11."

FACT: On 9/11 there were only 14 fighter jets on alert in the contiguous 48 states. No computer network or alarm automatically alerted the North American Air Defense Command (NORAD) of missing planes. "They [civilian Air Traffic Control, or ATC] had to pick up the phone and literally dial us," says Maj. Douglas Martin, public affairs officer for NORAD. Boston Center, one of 22 Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regional ATC facilities, called NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) three times: at 8:37 am EST to inform NEADS that Flight 11 was hijacked; at 9:21 am to inform the agency, mistakenly, that Flight 11 was headed for Washington (the plane had hit the North Tower 35 minutes earlier); and at 9:41 am to (erroneously) identify Delta Air Lines Flight 1989 from Boston as a possible hijacking. The New York ATC called NEADS at 9:03 am to report that United Flight 175 had been hijacked—the same time the plane slammed into the South Tower. Within minutes of that first call from Boston Center, NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass., and three F-16s from Langley Air National Guard Base in Hampton, Va. None of the fighters got anywhere near the pirated planes.

Why couldn't ATC find the hijacked flights? When the hijackers turned off the planes' transponders, which broadcast identifying signals, ATC had to search 4500 identical radar blips crisscrossing some of the country's busiest air corridors. And NORAD's sophisticated radar? It ringed the continent, looking outward for threats, not inward. "It was like a doughnut," Martin says. "There was no coverage in the middle." Pre-9/11, flights originating in the States were not seen as threats and NORAD wasn't prepared to track them.

Intercepts Not Routine
Claim: "It has been standard operating procedures for decades to immediately intercept off-course planes that do not respond to communications from air traffic controllers," says the Web site oilempire.us. "When the Air Force 'scrambles' a fighter plane to intercept, they usually reach the plane in question in minutes."

FACT: In the decade before 9/11, NORAD intercepted only one civilian plane over North America: golfer Payne Stewart's Learjet, in October 1999. With passengers and crew unconscious from cabin decompression, the plane lost radio contact but remained in transponder contact until it crashed. Even so, it took an F-16 1 hour and 22 minutes to reach the stricken jet. Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts. Prior to 9/11, all other NORAD interceptions were limited to offshore Air Defense Identification Zones (ADIZ). "Until 9/11 there was no domestic ADIZ," FAA spokesman Bill Schumann tells PM. After 9/11, NORAD and the FAA increased cooperation, setting up hotlines between ATCs and NORAD command centers, according to officials from both agencies. NORAD has also increased its fighter coverage and has installed radar to monitor airspace over the continent.

Read more: Debunking the 9/11 Myths: Special Report - The Planes - Popular Mechanics
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2827

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

slinky wrote:
Bush ran and hid in a bunker somewhere. All day and night as we were watching the news, my wife kept asking,"where is our president?" No word from him for at least a day. Some leader.

Bush was back in the White House at 7pm that day. He gave a televised address at 8:30pm that day. Don't feel bad.......perhaps they didn't show it on the Cartoon Channel where you clearly get most of your news.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3703
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today I thank a number of people: Marc Andreesen , Vint Cerf, Jim Clark, Sergei & Larry, and the good people at iwindsurf.com....all for providing a medium where I can learn American History from such an esteemed group of intellects...thanks again.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2742

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Fick-shun wrote:
Bush did exactly what POTUS protocol required in the event of a widespread attack...

What, shit in his pants?


Mr. Clueless wrote:

You can't lead if you're dead.

Bush couldn't lead, period. And he was mostly brain-dead, anyway. Still is.


Mr. Self-important engineer wrote:

Popular Mechanics magazine did exhaustive studies of everything from the Tower collapses to the airplane myths of 9/11.

Oh, gosh, Popular Mechanics. Now there's a qualified technical source if we ever saw one...

This month, their in-depth scientific reporting features nine gadgets to catch more fish. (Read it here.) That's certainly high-tech material of national security importance from the experts. Good catch, Mr. Fick!

Mikey, you are one funny guy! Laughing Laughing Laughing

____________________________________


Mr. Cartoon Channel wrote:
...perhaps they didn't show it on the Cartoon Channel where you clearly get most of your news.

Actually, that's precisely why we did NOT see it and you and Mikey did... because most of Bushie's stuff was on the cartoon channel along with his other clown neo-con fruitcake buddies...
.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3703
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can Pueno or Mr Gybe please walk me through how you copy and paste partial quotes, and then use a cute description of the poster above in darker letters? I would like to add it to my useless post repertoire.
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coyotewindsurf



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1272
Location: SF Bay

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 11:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
Can Pueno or Mr Gybe please walk me through how you copy and paste partial quotes, and then use a cute description of the poster above in darker letters? I would like to add it to my useless post repertoire.

Mikey the "Plonker" wrote:
Popular Mechanics magazine did exhaustive studies of everything...

Popular Mechanics has a wealth of info and How To advice! Wink

_________________
mo
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5477

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 12:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, George didn't panic. But torture and subverting the Constitution? Yee hah.. But it wasn't because he was afraid--or watching cartoons. Here's the latest:

Quote:
By Matt Spetalnick and Jane Sutton, Reuters
An independent task force issued a damning review of Bush-era interrogation practices on Tuesday, saying the highest U.S. officials bore ultimate responsibility for the "indisputable" use of torture, and it urged President Barack Obama to close the Guantanamo detention camp by the end of 2014.

In one of the most comprehensive studies of U.S. treatment of terrorism suspects, the panel concluded that never before had there been "the kind of considered and detailed discussions that occurred after 9/11 directly involving a president and his top advisers on the wisdom, propriety and legality of inflicting pain and torment on some detainees in our custody."

"It is indisputable that the United States engaged in the practice of torture," the 11-member task force, assembled by the nonpartisan Constitution Project think tank, said in their 577-page report.

The scathing critique of methods used under the Republican administration of former President George W. Bush also sharpened the focus on the plight of inmates at Guantanamo, which Bush opened and his Democratic successor has failed to close.

Obama banned abusive interrogation techniques such as waterboarding when he took office in early 2009, but the widely condemned military prison at the U.S. Naval Base in Cuba has remained an object of condemnation by human rights advocates.

A clash between guards and prisoners at the Guantanamo Bay camp last weekend and the release of harrowing accounts by inmates about force-feeding of hunger strikers threw a harsh spotlight on the predicament of the inmates, many held without charge or trial for more than decade.

The task force called the indefinite detention of prisoners at Guantanamo "abhorrent and intolerable" and called for it to be closed by the end of 2014 when NATO's combat mission in Afghanistan is due to end and most U.S. troops will leave.

By then, the 166 Guantanamo prisoners should be tried in civilian or military courts, repatriated or transferred to countries that would not torture them, or moved to U.S. jails, the task force's majority recommended.

But the 2014 goal will be hard to achieve because of legal, legislative and political obstacles Obama faces. While the White House says he remains committed to shutting Guantanamo, he has offered no new path to doing so in his second term.

The release of the encyclopedic report comes in the midst of the latest round of allegations of abuse at Guantanamo - which has become an enduring symbol of widely criticized Bush-era counterterrorism practices - where military officials say 43 prisoners are currently on a hunger strike.

"TRUTH COMMISSION"

Members of the task force described themselves as the closest thing to a "truth commission" since Obama decided early in his presidency against convening a national commission to investigate post-9/11 practices.

The panel, which included leading politicians from both parties, two U.S. retired generals and legal and ethics scholars, spent two years examining the U.S. treatment of suspected militants detained after the September 11, 2001, attacks.

Panel members interviewed former Clinton, Bush and Obama administration officials, military officers and former prisoners, and the investigation looked at U.S. practices at Guantanamo, in Afghanistan and Iraq and at the CIA's former secret prisons overseas.

The task force was chaired by Asa Hutchinson, a Republican former congressman and undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security during the George W. Bush administration, and James Jones, a Democratic former congressman who served as U.S. ambassador to Mexico.

In a finding the panel said was its most notable and was reached "without reservation," the report said, "Torture occurred in many instances and across a wide range of theaters."

But the panel concluded there was "no firm or persuasive evidence" that the use of such techniques yielded "significant information of value."

"The nation's highest officials bear some responsibility for allowing and contributing to the spread of torture," the report said, though it did not name names.

The task force, while concluding that U.S. and international laws were violated, did not recommend legal action against any of those involved but it did press for tighter rules to prevent a recurrence of torture.

"We as a nation have to get this right," Hutchinson told a news conference at the National Press Club in Washington.

The panel urged the U.S. government to release as much classified information as possible to help understand what went wrong and cope better with the next crisis.

"Publicly acknowledging this grave error, however belatedly, may mitigate some of those consequences and help undo some of the damage to our reputation at home and abroad," the report said.

The sweeping report cataloged abusive interrogation techniques such as waterboarding, sleep deprivation and chaining prisoners in painful positions.

The task force also concluded that force-feeding hunger striking detainees is a form of abuse and should end. "But at the same time the United States has a legitimate interest in preventing detainees from starving to death," the panel said.

The head of the International Committee of the Red Cross last week expressed opposition to the force-feeding of prisoners and said he urged Obama to do more to resolve the "untenable" legal plight of inmates held there.

The hunger strike began in February to protest the seizure of personal items from detainees' cells. About a dozen are being force-fed liquid meals through tubes.

Guards swept through communal cell blocks at the camp on Saturday and moved the prisoners into one-man cells.

"The action was taken to ensure the health and safety of the detainees not to 'break' the hunger strike," said Navy Captain Robert Durand, a spokesman for the Guantanamo detention center.
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bajaDean



Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 1000
Location: on earth

PostPosted: Fri Apr 19, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac excellent find.... here is the part that the right wing owned media is not going to allow the masses to know....

Quote:
The panel, which included leading politicians from both parties, two U.S. retired generals and legal and ethics scholars, spent two years examining the U.S. treatment of suspected militants detained after the September 11, 2001, attacks.

Panel members interviewed former Clinton, Bush and Obama administration officials, military officers and former prisoners, and the investigation looked at U.S. practices at Guantanamo, in Afghanistan and Iraq and at the CIA's former secret prisons overseas.

The task force was chaired by Asa Hutchinson, a Republican former congressman and undersecretary of the Department of Homeland Security during the George W. Bush administration, and James Jones, a Democratic former congressman who served as U.S. ambassador to Mexico.

In a finding the panel said was its most notable and was reached "without reservation," the report said, "Torture occurred in many instances and across a wide range of theaters."

But the panel concluded there was "no firm or persuasive evidence" that the use of such techniques yielded "significant information of value."
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