Pipe dream? Obamacare

mac · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 3:56 pm Post subject:

I enjoy schadenfreude enough to take great glee in the dawning awareness of at least a few Republicans that demographics are running against them, and the immediate attack of the unhinged. Tom Tancredo, one of the vilest of the reincarnated know nothings, just attacked Rand Paul for supporting an eventual path to citizenship.

keycocker · Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 3598

I see it from the point of view of those workers while they are still in the third world. US corps recruit workers and pay them to come in illegally, esp from Arizona. They send buses for them clear down to Southern Mexico.
It is exactly as Chandler says. If they arrest the employers, as they do in Mexico if they hire Americans, illegal immigration would largely disappear.

swchandler · Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588

Oh my, I shutter to think that liberals live amongst us and infect our world.

mac · Posted: Thu Apr 11, 2013 4:18 pm Post subject:

Can any of you righties name a single high profile prosecution of corporations that systematically hired undocumented workers during the Bush administration? I didn't think so. But you continue to swallow the BS handed out by talk radio. Big hotel chains, and agribusiness, have supported green card programs, and have hired service workers without consideration of their immigration status--in order to keep wages low. Did the hotel corporations fire workers when they found out the social security numbers were bogus? No, they fired them when they tried to organize unions.

You righties can't understand that my distaste for the inherent bigotry in the ranting about "illegals" does not mean that I support, as Techno would have it, an open border. Rather, I see this as part of a bigger game, fundamentally anti-union in origin, with employers given a wink and a nod, and the fools who listen to talk radio brainwashed into thinking it is a Democratic plot. Meanwhile you righties lost nearly all of the votes of citizen immigrants and children of immigrants.

wynsurfer · Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 940

You tell 'em mac!

techno900 · Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161

Finally, Mac stating that he doesn't want open borders (no one else in this boat?). Nothing will work without closing the borders, which will be very expensive, so what are the liberals suggesting to solve this part of the problem?

I am not opposed to a pathway to citizenship, but what happens to the millions of uneducated "visitors" that will not make enough money to avoid Medicaid, emergency rooms, welfare, free phones, free meals at school, etc. etc.? Will their contributions to society outweigh their drain? I really don't know, but it should be a concern. I guess their newly educated children will take care of them instead of becoming dependent on government?

Much of our economy is tied too closely to the cheap labor that our "visitors" provide, but I don't think that the consumer is reaping that much of a benefit, it's in the profit margin of the companies that hire the "visitors". Politicians don't want to bite the finger of the hand that is feeding them, so we just coast along, doing little or nothing to address the problem.

It must be a tough life for Mac when he is offended by just about everything. PC has drained the life out of free speech in this country, while almost nothing these days can be said that doesn't offend or "disrespect" someone or some group. Whatever happened to "sticks and stones"? Is there no one out there with a backbone anymore?

Nothing posted here in the last couple of years has ever offended me. Why?, because you have the right to say what you want without censorship, which is free speech. Those that do make an effort to belittle or denigrate those that oppose their believes are narrow minded bigots. This goes for parties on both side of the issues. But you do have the right to be a bigot if you choose, just know that your credibility takes a serious hit when you wade into that camp, and that you are not offending me.

And to answer the question about our national debt - Yes, I do believe that increasing taxes is needed to work toward a balanced budget, but not without cutting the waste and or slowing the rate of spending too. We are at a stalemate where neither side trusts the other to do the right thing, so until our nation's credit/borrowing takes a serious hit, we just avoid the issue and keep digging a deeper hole. One day, this country will be dealing with some serious austerity if we don't get our act together.

techno900 · Joined: 28 Mar 2001 Posts: 4161

And by the way, I don't want Mac to think he has change my mind about illegal immigrants, by using "visitors". When one chooses to break the law, by making an illegal border crossing, what they do is "illegal". There is no way to twist this fact into any other meaning or words. If anyone is offended by this, so be it. Driving without a driver's license is also illegal, but I doubt this can be twisted into an offensive statement if one is called an illegal driver. Maybe the left can, give it a shot.

boggsman1 · Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 9120 Location: at a computer

Technoo. Let me ask again...how do we "close the border"?
Secondly as I stated before, the economic benefits of the migrant worker are huge, especially in a global AG/commodity world. 50% of AG workers in this country are undocumented...can you imagine the hurt you would put on this country if you were able to force a change . From my perch in the financial world, I can tell you that inexpensive labor, and profit margins do have a huge impact on the "consumer".
I would agree that a culture of uneducated manual labor has to change. Thats why a path to citizenship is critical. UNLESS you and your Republican colleagues can lobby the Chamber of Commerce successfully, and tell them they are no longer allowed to employ the undocumented....I'll hold my breath.
BTW Technoo, labeling another human being "illegal" is demeaning, I think its important to be conscientious to our fellow human beings, regardless of their origins.

MalibuGuru · Joined: 11 Nov 1993 Posts: 9300

Boggs, because of unfettered migration, wages are falling in the developed countries. As a matter of fact, guys like me can find workers for half the price as we did when Bush was prez. I should like this, but I don't. It is harming the American citizens. Gold is collapsing in this Alice in Wonderland economy. Wages are falling. Corporations and govt are reaping all the benefits.

My Hispanic wife and family were all LEGAL immigrants to this country. They do not think the term "illegal immigrant" is incorrect or devisive.

boggsman1 · Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 9120 Location: at a computer

Steve...thanks for proving my point. I will add that I think we need a policy in this Country, Im not advocating for open borders, but unlike Repubs, I think we need to deal with the situation that we currently have. Which is 50% of the AG workers in this country are un-documented. What should we do?