myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Windsurfing Videos Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Do Masts Degrade with time?
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
chophop



Joined: 16 Apr 1996
Posts: 185

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:17 pm    Post subject: Do Masts Degrade with time? Reply with quote

At a local dealer they have the new x 100 mast or the old x combat (90% carbon) for the same price. The sales person says he thinks the old one is better. BUt it is 3-4 years old. Surely it has been kept in a dark place a mast bag so no risk of UV damage but does the sheer passage of time render the mast more brittle and subject to breakage? Question
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
beallmd



Joined: 10 May 1998
Posts: 1031

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 12:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes. But 3 to 4 years old is not bad. The bigger problem is the degrading of the windsurfer himself, at least that's my problem.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13309

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A heavy bud who sails the OR coast regularly is at something like 18 years on his main mast, a Nolimitz Skinny. 'S good enuff for me.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BRIMAR



Joined: 03 May 2004
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

IMHO Neither the carbon, Glass, or Epoxy resin will degrade over time without UV damage.
There making huge transport category Aircraft with pure carbon now so I have to think the Age of material is not a factor.
Hull expectancy duration is a pretty long time There are aluminum aircraft still flying around that are pretty damn old so I have to think Boeing and Airbus are expecting at least 25 years from each new carbon hull.

No does Carbon Degrade over time with heavy use?
I used to not think so but I have had pure Carbon Ice Hockey sticks that definitely become "Noodley" after about a year.

Hope this helps,

Brian
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 2976
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Do Masts Degrade with time? Reply with quote

chophop wrote:
At a local dealer they have the new x 100 mast or the old x combat (90% carbon) for the same price. The sales person says he thinks the old one is better. BUt it is 3-4 years old. Surely it has been kept in a dark place a mast bag so no risk of UV damage but does the sheer passage of time render the mast more brittle and subject to breakage? Question


you actually have 2 questions

Q # 1 to believe what the sales person says

Q.# 2 will it degrade without use.

#1 . your guess as good as mine

#2 .I think it won't start to degrade until it is exposed to UV , and the bending//stress of sailing .

_________________
K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you

http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 617
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The primary factors that degrade a mast are due to UV exposure and handling. Don't leave your mast out in the sun, don't whack it into the side of your car, drag it on asphalt, or rig you sail with a pile of sand between the cams/boom clamp and the mast.

A distant second would be cyclical stress. Composites will develop micro-fractures over a long duration of cyclical loading, but as pointed out, these same materials are now being used in commercial aircraft that are expected to undergo cyclical stress for a period of decades.

An unused mast which has been kept out of the sun should be no problem. I would just make sure that it has not been stored on a rack by a window where it was exposed to daily sunlight over a period of several years.

sm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 2976
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

whated he said above

plus I would take some measure to assure that its storage life was NOT
next to a Roller Skating rink , a ice hockey arena or a GO GO establishment,

all those vibrations would could possibly effect its sell by date

_________________
K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you

http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1251

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 4:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A woman on one of my Wagner recordings ought to be able to shatter glass at 50 paces when at full belt, judging by what she does to my ear drums. I make sure my masts are well out of her reach!

If carbon does degrade in U.V. light, and under vibration stresses, it surely wouldn't be allowed (safety testing legislation) in applications such as road bike frames and forks and wheels, if life span was so limited. Road surfaces are rarely smooth, and we all like topping 50m.p.h. down steep hills, often with considerable jarring, so should we still be riding 4 or 5 year old carbon bikes?

Surely there must be differing grades of carbon and resins, for the stresses of certain applications?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 617
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:

If carbon does degrade in U.V. light, and under vibration stresses, it surely wouldn't be allowed (safety testing legislation) in applications such as road bike frames and forks and wheels, if life span was so limited. Road surfaces are rarely smooth, and we all like topping 50m.p.h. down steep hills, often with considerable jarring, so should we still be riding 4 or 5 year old carbon bikes?


Off topic from the original post, but to answer your question, it all depends on build quality. I've got carbon masts that are well over ten years old that are still going strong and I've had carbon masts snap on their second outing. There's no reason this would be any different for a bike frame. Carbon fiber is not a magic material. Components which are built using carbon/composites still have to be properly designed and used within their design range or they will fail. If you buy a good quality bike, I imagine it would last for many years. If you buy junk, well, you get what you pay for.

sm
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1889
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Apr 13, 2013 8:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote



This chart illustrates the wide variety of carbon fibers in the market. Note that high tensile modulus is almost inversely proportional to tensile strength. As the fibers become higher modulus, they also tend to become less strong and less stiff. Modulus is a measure of elasticity as I understand it, and commonly mistaken as a measure of stiffness. Stiffness is more a function of the matrix used when assembling a resin-fiber laminate -how the resin/epoxy bonds to the fibers and how the carbon fibers align to the forces applied

As we've seen most racing masts use high-mod fiber, we can expect and do see that they are less strong and will fail with less force applied than masts with different lamination matrices. I suspect this has much to do with a compromise between making a mast sufficiently elastic (high mod) and sufficiently sting but not too heavy. And not too expensive.

Carbon fiber masts will fail just as any mast if the matrix fails. Simply using a modern carbon mast (cycling it in and out of column) should not show a marked drop in breakage resistance, nor a meaningful drop in performance. But any damage to the matrix may either individually or in concert with other damage, cause the mast to fail.

UV degradation of the epoxy is one way to damage the matrix. Dropping it on a rock and point loading are others.

Sitting inside a bag, inside a shop, a mast will not "age" of loose any noticeable strength or performance unless damaged by impact or fire or something.

As for bikes, they must not only deal with moving in and out of column but point loading and torsional forces. And, making a bike frame has more in common with making a boom than a mast.

_________________
Support Your Sport. Join US Windsurfing!
617.259.0411
www.USWindsurfing.org

www.konaone.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group