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almineev



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: can't load front foot Reply with quote

I have two slalom boards with footstraps in out position and two freeride/wavy boards with footstraps on the inside position.

When I compare slalom to freeride I feel significant difference in upwind ability and my stance is very different. Somehow slalom boards feel much easier and well balanced - nearly equal front/back footpressure, I can lean out and back, load the sail in gusts, up, across and downwind seem to be in the groove. Not so with freerides, here are the symptoms:
- back foot is loaded, front foot is not, especially if I'm going upwind I actually have to apply negative pressure and lift the board upwind with my frontfoot at times really hard. If I step with the frontfoot board doesn't point and goes downwind.
- somehow my stance feel too upright. As I'm writing it feels contradictory, but I can't comfortably rake the sail back and out in gusts. As a result I feel unbalanced and can't speed up before ramps and stay in control.
- going upwind, I can't keep board flat, if I do it won't point. So I keep it heeled upwind a little, but it doesn't feel right (or may be its normal with freerides).

So I guess there are problems with technique and tune. Given that I have no issues with slalom boards I'd start with tune. Moving straps in out position is not an option due to boards design. Fins I use on freeride aren't wavy - normal free ride fins almost straight with a little twist back at the bottom.

options I guess would be
- moving mast foot forward/back (it's in the middle right now)
- moving footstraps forward/back or changing distance between them
- moving boom up/down (currently I use the same height as with slamom boards)
- harness lines length (I recently switched from 24" to 28 but didn't notice much difference in the front foot load)

Thoughts?
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 201

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's pretty normal what you are describing. Yesterday I was on my 93lt FSW and it was very rough. I moved the mast foot forward to get more control , but quickly realized I can not go upwind . Moving it again back corrected the problem. Now how much is forward and back. On my 2 JPs the 135 cm point from the tail is just 2 fingers from the front end of the mast track. On my RRD Firerace on the other hand it is smack in the middle of it. That's why I would advise you to measure where the 135th centimeter of yor freeriders is and if its forward of the center of the mast track to place the MF slightly back of this point. Also check out this post it may give you some ideas about narrower foot straps spread: http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1558
Also keep in mind that modern boards favor much more upright stance then before, if changing rig and board setting doesn't help work on your stance.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2378

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

when one is in a different position from the mast foot from one board to another and one boom height to another, one must adjust the boom height as well as the mast foot to get equal footing.

outboard feet, boom up. inboard opposite. same with fin sizes, there's a balance with those as well. large fin feel s too big? base forward, then boom up. small fin feeling? base back boom down.

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Last edited by jingebritsen on Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:40 am; edited 1 time in total
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2330

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lower booms on freeride, higher on slalom.
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almineev



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
base forward, then boom up. small fin feeling? base back boom down.


This is interesting. I was going to try raisning the boom, but now will try lowering it.

What about harness lines? I would assume shorter with lower boom?


Last edited by almineev on Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2330

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Logic would assume so, and it's almost always true.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3238

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Try tuning by standing on one foot while sailing. It may surprise you and can teach you techniques to shift weight.
Can you take either hand off the boom on a broad reach? That is the way to get the lines right before changing anything else.

You can also try taking off your back hand and crouching down, which loads the lines more. A properly adjusted rig gains control when you drop your body like that from increased mast foot pressure and lower center of gravity.
If it is harder to control then your setup needs to change.
Practicing this move can put a handy tool in your box when control is an issue, as in big waves or near falls.
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almineev



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adywind wrote:
I think it's pretty normal what you are describing.
Agree to disagree Smile Off the groove feel kills fun. There should be a way to fix it. After all freerides are designed for easy sailing. I can accept weaker upwind performance as compared to racier slalom designs, but not as much. Right now I basically struggle gaining altitude upwind on these two boards.

adywind wrote:
Also check out this post it may give you some ideas about narrower foot straps spread: http://www.star-board.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1558
Also keep in mind that modern boards favor much more upright stance then before, if changing rig and board setting doesn't help work on your stance.

Interesting article. To me it looks like moving straps back might help. I will try this Smile
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almineev



Joined: 25 Apr 2010
Posts: 22

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
Can you take either hand off the boom on a broad reach?

I can. Lines position is balanced.
Prominent simptom is my front foot idle or I have to pull it up going upwind to make board point and not turn downwind.
I however see this dude is doing somewhat similar (toes up, definitely pulling up on the front strap): http://vimeo.com/61870981 @ 3:05
So may be it's false alarm on my side after all.
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surfersteve



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you may be trying to make your boards equal when they are designed to be anything but that. Any and all of the adjustments you suggested will change your trim, but to what end?
Probably the easiest solution to improving your upwind ability would be to get a longer fin. It will also improve stability by making you less loose. Moving the straps, particularly the back one will give you more power through your fin (you can drive off the fin to get upwind). You can move the front strap out a little as well to more control of the rail and this also will increase upwind abilities. Mast forward, same thing.
It doesn't seem you care as much about looseness in the board, so considering you ride slalom and like that set up, I would do that as one of the first solutions/choices since you like that set up anyway.
Boom height is another big deal I believe. Moving the boom up the mast changes the location of the power pocket and improves the drive. You have to be powered up to nail it upwind. Most sails seem to be made with higher booms and longer lines in mind, at least according to people I speak to at the shops. All things being equal, you should have had to move your boom up when you went 4 extra inches to the lines. That alone should have given you some feedback re: boom height and sail power.
Again, though, I have to ask: why do you want to force your freestyle board to behave like a slalom board when it was engineered to behave opposite of that?
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