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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 502

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
In addition to greed (whatever that means), profits, etc. is simple incompetence, whatever the cause. I've had a nationally acclaimed radiation oncologist feed me dangerous BS her own references shot down, a VA doc ignored my prostate cancer until it escaped and WILL end my life, I've had a doctor prescribe a dangerous wide-spectrum antibiotic for a simple overreaction to a dab of hand lotion in my eye, and I've caught 10-20 doctors making 15-25 mistakes between those extremes. I no longer trust any physicians 90%, and that will mushroom as Obamacare continues to destroy U.S. medicine's quality and costs. Sadly, BSNBC watchers, both of whom vote, don't even know what I'm talking about.

I hear you Mike, Like I always say, one has to take responsibility for one's own health, if you think you can just go to a doctor and expect them to diagnose and successfully treat a problem all on their own YOU are being naive.
When I go to the doctor now with a complaint I have already thoroughly researched it and diagnosed it myself, the doctor goes over the options and I choose what to do because I am already familiar with the options.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13282

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pointster wrote:
I don't think you made anything up, but you also didn't do a very extensive job of checking primary sources. I think this is a case of confirmation bias.

My point was not the letter or the spirit of the HIPAA law; anyone can read and cite it. My point was that in the hands of idiots and/or people afraid of the government's heavy hand, well-intended laws written by self-important ideologues and administered by sheeple bite us in the ass. The story as I cited and researched it illustrated my point well. Just think what this family went through because working stiffs are gagged in part by the letter of the law and the rest of the way by fear of prosecution for using their heads ... damn near a quote from VA personnel's lips to my ear every time I gripe about millions of vets having to burn gallons of gasoline every time they need test results ... which at our age is very often.

Does the left not even care that Obama has issued, preponderantly with no Congressional oversight, many thousands of edicts/laws/mandates*, many deliberately slated for obvious reasons to take effect after the midterm elections? Do even three of them improve our lives, rather than further burden them? If so, why are they so hard for reporters to dig out?

* Yes, Dan and Poinster, we realize that laws must derive from the Constitution, pass Congressional muster, and be enforced by the DoJ ... ON PAPER. But since when has that stopped this man from ignoring all that? Look, for example, at his response -- a rousing F*ck You -- to federal courts which negated the NLRB and its rape of Boeing in South Carolina.

My OTHER point, which is the express reason I pulled the curtains open and saw Dan's post after I mentioned a legal issue, is that he is just one of 29 POS here who do little else but dump personal vendetta turds in our punchbowl in a futile and backfiring effort to discredit others. Their constant harangue of lying blather discredits a forum that could and should be a place to exchange information, opinions, humor, and stoke, but instead is reduced to 50% baseless ad hominem BS. I'm constantly amazed how many of you tolerate and encourage it.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13282

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
I hear you Mike, Like I always say, one has to take responsibility for one's own health, if you think you can just go to a doctor and expect them to diagnose and successfully treat a problem all on their own YOU are being naive.
When I go to the doctor now with a complaint I have already thoroughly researched it and diagnosed it myself, the doctor goes over the options and I choose what to do because I am already familiar with the options.

I have to harp on that over and over and over in cancer forums, yet still we see horror stories way too often from people whose doctors are incompetent, often criminally so. Individual cases crop up every few weeks from the U.S., but the tales of neglect, unavailability of tests, and sloth in the UK medical system are legion. The response I got in weeks from U.S. care a decade ago -- even including the swamped VA system --takes Brits years.

Heads up, O-care lovers. That crap is heading for our fan.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5444

PostPosted: Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My OTHER point, which is the express reason I pulled the curtains open and saw Dan's post after I mentioned a legal issue, is that he is just one of 29 POS here who do little else but dump personal vendetta turds in our punchbowl in a futile and backfiring effort to discredit others. Their constant harangue of lying blather discredits a forum that could and should be a place to exchange information, opinions, humor, and stoke, but instead is reduced to 50% baseless ad hominem BS. I'm constantly amazed how many of you tolerate and encourage it."


Nobody really cares about an incessant whiner that can't take the heat, especially one that makes a point of being very negative and hateful in his commentary.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1348

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since the government mandated the HIPAA regulations, medical centers, because of fear, go overboard trying to follow the rules. Now the government is backtracking and saying the confidentially is no longer a big deal, especially for the mentally ill since there is the potential to gain access to a gun and kill people. I don't know how they will actually define mentally ill with the potential to kill.

Again, some reasonable logic at the surface, but the reality is that the management of this will be a nightmare. It already is at the local level (I am now in North Carolina) where the recording keeping is in the county Sheriffs offices and the state is trying to get out of the business and give it to the national government, which is what will likely happen soon.

Someone else may have the time to research this, but where do you draw the line between the mentally ill that may shoot someone and the mentally ill that may not shoot someone? If by some chance, you fall on the "may shoot someone" side, how will you feel about being in a national data base? What else will the government do with this information, put you on a NO FLY LIST? Not renew your drivers licenses? Not give passports? Not allow to vote? Think about it, if you knew you had a mental problem and feared some of the above issues, would you go for treatment?

Mental records, old and new. Do you think medical facilities will go through their old paper records to find all of their mentally ill patients? What happens to a medical facility that through oversight, fails to find and report all those that are suppose to be reported as mentally ill, and a missed person goes on a killing binge. Is the medical facility now legally negligent?

This whole thing is a can of worms and they are about to be let out the can.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1849

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno...You may find this article interesting

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/02/01/us/focus-on-mental-health-laws-to-curb-violence-is-unfair-some-say.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

The NRA is, successfully, diverting the argument by concentrating the dialogue on the risks that the mentally ill pose in owning firearms. However, in overall gun deaths, this is small.

There is not a current, standardized, diagnositic technique for the prediction of future violent behavior by a mentally ill patient. Yet, the New York gun control law, recently enacted, requires reporting by mental health workers. HIPAA allows this reporting due to exceptions in the law for public safety. It is going to be a mess.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1889
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
I knew Dan was full of shit again, so I looked.
Same old same old.
I can't imagine how he makes a living in a profession where facts allegedly matter.

DanWeiss wrote:
Mr. Ficktion is spreading false information to buoy his self importance again.

Let's ask Mike if he's OK with the VA releasing his medical records to anyone who asks. I trust we know the answer.

Just a few of MANY news stories on the missing man:
http://tinyurl.com/a76m9c5 .
SALEM, ORE. (AP) - An 81-year-old Salem man was safe in a hospital while friends and police searched for him for two days this week after he disappeared from his home _ but medical workers wouldn’t tell police that, citing a federal privacy law. Eventually, an anonymous tipster told police the diabetic man was in Salem Hospital

http://tinyurl.com/ax24v9f
Quote: "Officers contacted area hospitals to see whether Dill was a patient, and Salem Hospital officials wouldn't say, citing the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, known as HIPAA, "

Another:
http://tinyurl.com/aj27lko
Opening statement: "SALEM, Ore. -- Police were searching for a missing man for two days until they realized Thomas Dill wasn’t missing at all. He had been in the hospital for a week and a half following a car crash. Staffers at Salem Hospital failed to inform police of this crucial piece of information because of a federal privacy law. HIPAA, or Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act, limits what information medical personnel can release to the public and police."

Spin that all you want, Dan, but you're still a lawyer to the bone, and that's not a compliment; it's a factual personal attack based on your posts.

20 years of eating crow, yet STILL you people NEVER learn that claiming I make stuff up leaves you with rotten egg on your faces.

You, OTOH, DO make stuff up, just as Coboardhead and everyone else on my shit list incessantly does; it's a major reason you're all there. Show us where I said or implied I wanted my medical records released to anyone who asks. But when I cannot get an urgent medical test result regarding a life-threatening ailment out of the VA via the FOI Act, myhealthevet, or ebenefits, and have to drive 15 to 50 miles each way to do it in person, the system is broken.



HIPAA does NOT broadly prevent a health care provider from identifying a person who was given service. It does ban dissemination of certain health care information when connected to personally identifying information. HIPPA scope covers protected health information. What does that include?

Let's look at the law!

Section 1171 of Part C of Subtitle F of Public Law 104-191 (August 21, 1996): Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act of 1996: Administrative Simplification.

Health information means any information, whether oral or recorded in any form or medium, that–

(A) is created or received by a health care provider, health plan, public health authority, employer, life insurer, school or university, or health care clearinghouse; and

(B) relates to the past, present, or future physical or mental health or condition of any individual, the provision of health care to an individual, or the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual.”

Individually identifiable health information is information that is a subset of health information, including demographic information collected from an individual, and:

(1) Is created or received by a health care provider, health plan, employer, or health care clearinghouse; and

(2) Relates to the past, present, or future physical or mental health or condition of an individual; the provision of health care to an individual; or the past, present, or future payment for the provision of health care to an individual; and

(i) That identifies the individual; or

(ii) With respect to which there is a reasonable basis to believe the information can be used to identify the individual.”

Simply identifying a person as having been a patient is NOT necessarily a violation of HIPPA because the link between a hospital and a patient is not in general a link between specific health care provided to an identified patient.

For example, see this from the AHA. http://www.aha.org/advocacy-issues/tools-resources/advisory/96-06/030201-media-adv.shtml

More importantly, absent some incapacity, a patient may individually prohibit dissemination of his or her presence. Can you confirm that either the patient signed the standard release that allows communication to limited groups like family or that that patient refused to sign or signed a no-comment demand?

I highly doubt you know the details but instead chose to quote newspaper articles that summarize facts and assert legal conclusions.

Your links tend to quote each other (what a surprise), but let's assume the police simply asked if there was a patient by the name of X in the hospital. Ordinarily, police never make this call unless searching for a missing person, suspect, fugitive or material witness subject to a subpoena. HIPPA was written in part to help codify elements of the doctor/patient privilege -a privilege belonging to the patient and which must be protected by the doctor. If I am not one of the 4 categories, the police cannot be permitted to end-run the doctor/patient privilege to gather information about me. The modern "person of interest" fails to rise to the level of "suspect" and HIPPA recognizes that.

Perhaps the polices botched the inquiry by not identifying the person as one formally declared a "missing person." Had they identified the person that way, the hospital certainly could have answered affirmatively. We see this all the time. "X was admitted and is in serious condition." If there is no direct inquiry citing the specific authority for the inquiry there can be no reason to acknowledge the patient's presence or make that call privately.

However, your initial post went on to describe a call that not only included the patient's name but some sort of statement that he was "disabled by [some medical problem I forget]. That's blanking ridiculous . . ." Clearly, outside a waiver, that statement is not permitted by HIPPA as it links patient identity with protected health information (the patient's medical problem).

So, either you are wrong about the facts or wrong about the law or both. Or, since neither of us know what he signed and what he waived or limited, and what actually was communicated in the phone call neither of us can say HIPPA was the problem.

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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 882
Location: Leo Cabrillo

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slinky wrote:
There is far too much profit in managing symptoms of disease. The last thing the pharmaceutical companies want, and maybe many doctors as well, is cures for degenerative disease.


Couldn't agree more. The large hospital groups are as much to blame as the drug companies. And the doctors are so afraid of the lawyers that they order unnecessary tests to confirm what they already know by reviewing the patients history and doing a physical exam.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1889
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 18, 2013 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
SNIP
My OTHER point, which is the express reason I pulled the curtains open and saw Dan's post after I mentioned a legal issue, is that he is just one of 29 POS here who do little else but dump personal vendetta turds in our punchbowl in a futile and backfiring effort to discredit others. Their constant harangue of lying blather discredits a forum that could and should be a place to exchange information, opinions, humor, and stoke, but instead is reduced to 50% baseless ad hominem BS. I'm constantly amazed how many of you tolerate and encourage it.


What a riot. When I disagree with you and set out the reasons, you claim it's all a personal vendetta against you. Really? If that were the case, I suppose I'd actually care enough but I do not.

IT'S NOT ABOUT YOU !! Except that it is, sort of, when you post something in order to make a political point by employing non-facts and misstatements of law. You -almost entirely- brought down the readership and participation in rec. windsurfing with your ultra-right wing and highly misinformed (sometimes by your own admission) arguments. Wardog called you out on much of it, as did I to a far less extent. There may be a reason why you feel under attack, but I largely ignore my urge to further fuel your self-agrandized perspective on replies.

Either way, we all know arguing with you is like trying to convince a paranoid schizophrenic that what he believes makes no sense. It's fruitless. I'm beginning to wonder if the reason many feel that way with you is somewhat similar?

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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1247

PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quite so Dan. You are not alone in your conclusion.

As a further 'put the record straight' point; I too had a cancer which, despite the oft spouted failings and inferiority of our 'socialised' National Health service (inferior to what, I wonder) was correctly diagnosed by my (friendly) family doctor. Referral to a specialist at hospital, and a competent and successful removal operation all took place in a reasonable space of time.

I have it in mind to obstinately live to be 100. (Though I may whine a little subsequent to that!)
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