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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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 Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| stevenbard wrote: | | Statistically, I believe police to be even more brutal than the common man....They don't even have a learners permit to own a semi auto weapon. |
Semi-automatic handgun or AR-15, single-shot action Derringer, shotgun ... makes no matter to me; if it's going to be carried outside the home, I'd like to see a day of legal, moral, and practical training imposed. Requiring it by law at the federal level is harder to justify to me.
As for cops being more brutal ... I sure as hell HOPE so! What good is a cop, our last line of defense AFTER HE ARRIVES ON THE SCENE, who would stand by as most civilians do and just watch a mugging or murder unfold? I don't want John Wayne swaggering into the fray, refusing to escalate a fight [remember? He wouldn't punch or shoot first, and wouldn't pick up a chair or gun until the guy in the black hat (OMG; mac will say I'm a racist!!!) did]; I want Dirty Goddamned Harry fighting for my life and his own, and fighting to win, not just tie. I want that f***ing animal who's trying to choke my wife for her purse looking down a police gun barrel he could stick his thumb down, and I want him motionless on the ground, by whatever means is NECESSARY*, before he has ANY chance of harming any innocent cop or civilian.
* And when that cop takes that too far, or too often, he should be punished. But beating a perp into compliance after he fights them or goes for their gun is not brutality IMO; it's part and parcel of preventing harm to the good guys both then and the next time this same POS tries to harm someone. No cop should accept a black eye or facefull of spit in my book if a nightstick or Mace or TASER or a boot in the groin or neck will prevent it, and he sure as hell doesn't owe the perp a chance to do it twice in one encounter. I'd bet a lifetime subscription to the NYT and BSNBC's annual budget (what's that ... $100?) that neither of those sources depict police brutality stories honestly very often; we've seen too many WHOLE tapes to believe that.
On the flip side, it's that very same elevation and presumption -- whether founded or not -- of their power, infallibility, and righteousness which should and must bring them down even harder than civilians when they deliberately abuse that trust.
And, finally ... for now ... who WOULDN'T become brutal to some degree after seeing and facing the actions, threats, and lowlife dregs so many cops face so often? We've asked the beat and SWAT cops teaching us these courses whether an armed citizenry worries them in incidents. "Very little, if any", they say. "We can usually tell the good guys from the bad guys by their behavior and attitude very quickly and consistently." The same lessons apply to the dregs I've encountered in windsurfing forums; their stripes are clear and they have had a very obvious and distinctly negative impact on my personality and my faith in people to behave as good guys. Unfortunately, the same peer tolerance mindset encourages both groups of misfits to carry on. Fortunately, cops, lawyers, and countermeasures sometimes solve both problems. |
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beaglebuddy
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:59 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | | How does a number of reasonable gun control measures get interpreted to be a total ban against gun ownership, and why does it generate irrational fantasies about government confiscation? |
Simply put because that is the stated goal of the gun control groups and certain politicians.
Like the boiling frog, an all out immediate ban is all but impossible but to slowly chip away at our rights people will not realize what is happening until it's too late.
That's the way it has worked in other countries and each step of the way they lie to our faces claiming it's only reasonable restrictions and they don't want to take all the guns. What do you think registration is for? So they know where to collect them when the time comes.
Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:28 pm Post subject: |
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"What do you think registration is for? So they know where to collect them when the time comes."
We require automobile registration, but nobody interprets it as a government tactic to confiscate their vehicle.
"Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining."
I guess I could say the same. |
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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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Save your breath Swchandler, they're blitzing the forum!
Paranoia. .....a thought process believed to be heavily influenced by anxiety or fear, often to the point of IRRATIONALITY and delusion.
Einstein ...... two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe. |
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beaglebuddy
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: |
We require automobile registration, but nobody interprets it as a government tactic to confiscate their vehicle.
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What's the first thing they told you during drivers ed?
Driving a car is a privilege, not a right.
When politicians and groups say in their own words that they want to ban all guns I take them for their word, I don't try to spin it and interpret it differently.  |
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keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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If the pols who are proposing the mild recent measures have said they plan to confiscate guns could you provide those quotes you have read?
You are telling me I support taking guns away because I noted the facts here in Bali and I am a lifelong gun owner.
The NRA has been saying that stuff ever since they stopped being a respectable gun club and were taken over as a flack for weapons manufacturers but no law has ever been written to seize all our guns.
There have been lying to gun owners for so long that the brainwashing is deeply ingrained in many folks. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 7:49 pm Post subject: |
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Beaglebuddy--you are more paranoid than well informed. The conservative Supreme Court, in 2008, held for the first time that there was a right to own guns separate from participation in a militia. It was a 5-4 decision. But it is not unlimited, and not immune from regulation. From the majority decision:
| Quote: | | Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose. See, e.g., Sheldon, in 5 Blume 346; Rawle 123; Pomeroy 152-153; Abbott 333. For example, the majority of the 19th-century courts to consider the question held that prohibitions on carrying concealed weapons were lawful under the Second Amendment or state analogues. See, e.g., State v. Chandler, 5 La. Ann., at 489-490; Nunn v. State, 1 Ga., at 251; see generally 2 Kent *340, n. 2; The American Students' Blackstone 84, n. 11 (G. Chase ed. 1884). Although we do not undertake an exhaustive historical analysis today of the full scope of the Second Amendment, nothing in our opinion should be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings, or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms.26 |
In the wake of conservatives cutting funding for every time of schooling, your comment about school-taught driver education is particularly laughable. Of course drivers education is no longer taught in high schools in California--and there has been a general decline in the level of driving.
You nuts all need to get some tin foil hats for your heads so we can tell who you are quickly. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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A U of Chicago poll shows the percentage of homes with guns is decreasing, even in the rural west and south, even as gun sales go through the roof. Whatchawannabet that what's decreasing, that the discussion didn't even suggest, is the percentage of homeowners willing to admit they own guns?
It's probably much like that U.S. census long form we filled out a couple of years ago, asking us pages of personal questions. I answered the relevant few, such as the number of people living here, and marked the vast majority "MYOB". I don't live in Germany by choice, not chance. (Think that's a ridiculous comment? A USAF officer I served with was born and raised in Germany, and wised up and moved to the U.S. after, among many such overbearing actions, the country gave him a list of names from which he had to choose names for his children.) |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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"The gun toothpaste is out of the tube, plenty of gun laws exist awreddy in most states, criminals can always get whatever weapons they want short of .50 cal machine guns and bazookas, and virtually every new gun law or bill I've heard about is strictly grandstanding, bleeding heart, disproved, demagoguing idiocy with no facts behind it and often many facts against it."
Wow, that's some sentence, and it also includes a bit of folksiness too!
isobars is a goldmine on this topic, and he's got so much to say. |
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beaglebuddy
Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120
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| Posted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| “I don’t believe people should be able to own guns,” Barry Hussein |
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