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Global cooling
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3626

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is a shame that this magnificent creature should be kept in a cage for its entire life. I'd like to see more of them released and rehabilitated into the wild. (with private donations of course)

http://thestar.blogs.com/dailybeast/2013/03/the-daily-beast-buffalo-zoos-baby-polar-bear.html
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4673

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT--we need to ignore the pathetic mewlings of Bard--he has no idea how much this is going to cost--and that he is going to pay it instead of the heavier carbon users. It is interesting to note the George Schultz announced his support for a carbon tax that captures those externalities.

Quote:
Washington -- Republican eminence grise George Shultz addressed a packed room on Capitol Hill Friday to press for a carbon tax.

A Californian now at the conservative Hoover Institution at Stanford University, Shultz taught economics at the University of Chicago and is one of just two people ever to hold four Cabinet posts.

Bucking his party on climate change, Shultz said all forms of energy should compete "on a level playing field" by incorporating the cost of their carbon pollution.

Once carbon pollution is included in energy prices, Shultz would "wipe out" subsidies to all fuels - fossil, nuclear and renewable - and let the market choose.

Carbon tax revenue under his plan would be remitted to consumers in the form of a "carbon dividend check." Modeled on Alaska's Permanent Fund, the plan is similar in concept to legislation by Sens. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., and Bernie Sanders, independent-Vt.

Shultz said that when he was secretary of state in the 1980s, scientists became concerned about depletion of the Earth's ozone layer. The science was controversial, he said, but everyone agreed that, if true, the results would be catastrophic.

Former President Ronald Reagan "decided we should have an insurance policy," he said...
Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/science/article/George-Shultz-pushes-for-carbon-tax-4340917.php#ixzz2N4DGJLNg


I would love to see this as a mechanism to reduce the debt--half devoted to debt reduction and half to tax reduction. Are there enough sane Republicans left in Washington D. C.?

You asked about the study and funding. That is the right question to ask. Here's a link to the CV of the study principal: http://proglacial.com/Proglacial/CV.html

He is a post doc at Oregon State, and comes with the right credentials to study paleo-geology. He's a kid, so I assume that he has made mistakes--but most of the kids I meet coming out of geology programs in California are so much better educated than I was, I'm pretty sure he is pretty good. I can't tell for sure, but it looks like the study grant is from the National Geographic Society, and was presumably based on a research proposal. Paleogeologists have been trying to figure out temperature and CO2 patterns for about 3 decades now, and they just keep getting better.

Mac
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2365

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
It is a shame that this magnificent creature should be kept in a cage for its entire life. I'd like to see more of them released and rehabilitated into the wild. (with private donations of course)

http://thestar.blogs.com/dailybeast/2013/03/the-daily-beast-buffalo-zoos-baby-polar-bear.html

Release it in Alaska and watch Caribou Barbie nail it with an AR-15 from a helicopter.

"Polar bears, they're just unlucky."

Yeah, that works.
.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3626

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The calm before the solar storm? NASA warns 'something unexpected is happening to the Sun'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2290289/NASA-warns-unexpected-happening-Sun-year-supposed-peak-sunspot-cycle.html#ixzz2N5awZP6Z

You do realize Mac that the sun is responsible for 100% of our global warming. Fossil fuels for example derived their energy from the sun.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4673

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bard--you are a scream. I laughed out loud. Now listen carefully. The sun is the source of the energy and heat on earth, including stored heat in fossil fuels and plants. But warming is the result when carbon dioxide builds up in the atmosphere and heat is retained on the planet rather than radiated back into space. Two different systems.

You can get a used high school physics book pretty cheap.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2365

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:

You can get a used high school physics book pretty cheap.

You're assuming that he'd read it.

And if he read it, you're assuming he'd understand it.

And if he understood it, you're assuming he'd believe it (it IS science, after all).

And if he believed it, you're assuming he'd admit it.

Lotta assumptions there.
.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1849

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BS Pueno...It is easy to poke fun at the other posters. A bit more difficult to engage in the conversation with some real input.

Oops...Now I did it. Carry on!
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3030

PostPosted: Sat Mar 09, 2013 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That trapped heat has the sun as its original source back down the chain.
I have a high school physics book to check since I substitute teach that subject.
Been a long time since high school huh guys. Did you talk trash all the time back then too?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4673

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't talk trash in high school. As they said then, act like you've been in the end zone before. I am perfectly happy to have a serious discussion about global warming and the strengths and weaknesses of the two extreme positions. But when someone posts a simple fact like heat comes from the sun, and then runs with that to a ludicrous conclusion that global warming will be good for the planet, trash talking seems to be the only appropriate response.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2365

PostPosted: Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
BS Pueno...It is easy to poke fun at the other posters. A bit more difficult to engage in the conversation with some real input.

Oops...Now I did it. Carry on!

Real input?

OK... The sun's radiation hits the earth primarily as short wavelength infrared. At the shorter wavelengths, carbon dioxide is transparent, so the radiation sails right through the atmosphere, from sun to us.

Once that IR hits the earth's surface, it warms it. The earth's surface re-radiates infrared, but because the temperature is lower, the wavelength is much longer. At longer wavelengths, CO2 is opaque -- so it blocks the infrared from radiating back into space.

Thus, the energy from the sun is trapped here by the CO2. This raises the atmospheric temperature.

Methane is also opaque to longer wave IR energy. Like CO2, it's a "greenhouse gas."

Our sister planet Venus has an atmosphere that's rich in CO2 -- and a surface temperature exceeding the melting point of lead.

That might be a clue.

Incidentally, this has NOTHING to do with CFCs, aka "Freon." That gas acts as a catalyst, promoting the dissociation of ozone (O3) into normal oxygen (O2). Unfortunately, a molecule of CFC is not consumed in the reaction, so it stays in the upper atmosphere destroying the ozone molecules. Thus, the CFC from a leaky air-conditioner or a spray can (propellent) stays up there continuing to do damage.

The ozone (O3) blocks harmful cancer-causing ultraviolet radiation, so ozone serves as a valuable shield to protect us. Ordinary oxygen does not block UV.

Bard might find that used physics book --- but now he doesn't need it.
.
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