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Syria
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5117

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 9:54 pm    Post subject: Syria Reply with quote

The best news about Obama that I read this weekend involved his resisting recommendations by the national security folks to begin arming rebels in Syria. Assad is a genuine bad guy--but the arms in Libya have contributed to blow back in numerous other places. Here from February 26 Washington Post:

Quote:
The Obama administration, citing legal restrictions on direct funding of the opposition, has funneled $385 million in humanitarian aid through international institutions and nongovernmental organizations, most of which operate under Syrian government supervision.

On the military side, the administration has established direct contact with rebel leaders but has limited aid to communications equipment delivered indirectly. A push last summer to arm the rebels, backed by then-Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton, then-CIA Director David H. Petraeus and Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta, was rejected by the White House in favor of continued efforts to build the political opposition.


McCain, who pursuaded the American public that he would make a bad President, went nuts. But keeping the arms out of the hands of the bad guys with guns is hard, even harder than figuring out who of the guys that want more guns are the "good guys." Civil and tribal wars are pretty damned messy.

What do you think, should we try to pick sides in another war in the Middle East? When some of the ant-Assad rebels are a particularly virulent form of Muslim jihadists?
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1638
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Viet Nam, nuff said.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3321

PostPosted: Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I second that NW.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1442

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 10:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep out. Trying to be the "good guy/humanitarian" the world over, historically has more negatives than positives. The US simply should not be the world's policeman. Our image gets tarnished more than polished with these types of interventions.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5761

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's enheartening to see the agreement on this issue. The civil war in Syria gives us an opportunity to see how the leading nations in the European and Middle Eastern theaters manage the problem. When you think about it, so much of what has been happening in the Middle East is a direct result of European influence and manipulation over time. Moreover, it's not a stretch to say that our strategic and economic interests in Syria are minimal. Although it might be difficult to stand by and watch the tragedy unfold in Syria, I see no reason why we need to become militarily embroiled in the fight.
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2361
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Third it.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2631

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 3:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
The US simply should not be the world's policeman.
...
...
Syria, I see no reason why we need to become militarily embroiled in the fight.

Agreed.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14032

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 5:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Keep out. Trying to be the "good guy/humanitarian" the world over, historically has more negatives than positives. The US simply should not be the world's policeman. Our image gets tarnished more than polished with these types of interventions.

Yeah ... but should our image be the overriding decision factor? How about genocides, nuclear arms in the hands of despots, aggressive Communism, French (or British?) cooking, national starvation ...? Shouldn't we be guided more by right vs wrong than by image? That's primarily how I live my life, and the "friends" I've lost in the process were apparently not that big a loss.

The foremost reason -- of several -- I consider Ron Paul a loser is his goal of burying our heads in the sand. Decreasing the intervention, fine, but ceasing it and shutting our eyes on the world is suicidal (e.g., 9/ll). Do we stop altogether and throw out the good results with the bad, to our ultimate destruction? We have a target on our back partly because we're the king of the hill by several criteria, and we'd better keep an eye on contenders to those positions.

I had a chat with a recently retired CIA spook in the gym locker room last week. I quickly got the impression he was a straight shooter, and asked him, "I know the CIA does many things, for better or worse, that we'll never know about, but do you think they "go rogue" ... go way too far ... too often? Are too many of them loose cannons without controls or a conscience?" He's obviously biased, but FWIW he quickly gave a resounding, "No; that's extremely rare and quickly outed and solved" and a couple of examples to the contrary. He couldn't give any details, but stated from personal experience there were several cases in which his agency had very directly averted destruction of the U.S. as we know it.

BS? I doubt it; I've read a bit about a couple of such cases and he seemed very open and genuine.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 897
Location: Oahu

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
(or British?) cooking,

I'd support an invasion to remove the blight of British cooking. Wink
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4037

PostPosted: Tue Mar 05, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hanging out with spooks at the gym Iso. You are the most interesting man in the world!!! Laughing

It might be interesting to give Iraq, Iran, Afgahnistan, Libya, Syria and the other despots some tactical short range nukes that go off in 90 minutes....after we deliver them. Just evaporate the ? but leave the oil! Laughing Did I just say that?
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