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Gun Nuts
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5003

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't the Department of Homeland Security oversee border activities, and aren't the Republicans always talking about protecting the borders? Just saying, maybe the most paranoid scenario is just playing the tune "I Scare Myself."
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13867

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
Your posts have tended to show a very centered point of view and seem not to consider all the implications to the rest of the world, so although it might have been a cheap shot, I was TRYING to get you to open your eyes and see beyond the "self".

The "what ifs" are endless. ...

"shooting background" ... "shooting foreground" ... "Condition Yellow" ... "Condition Green" ...once you carry that gun, YOU are responsible for everything it does. ....

LEO's are looking at webpages...

carrying a gun, kind of like wearing racing leathers on a roadbike tends to make you push the envelope. To do things you normally probably wouldn't do.

if I couldn't shoot and kill the person legally, I didn't even bother to pull the gun out.

Three of your scenarios involved firing at vehicles. You will be very hard pressed to find "reasonable" people to agree with that.

Even if you had a legal RPG to take out the vehicle, do you really think you could shoot?

...WHY do all these things happen to [you]? The majority of people can go through an entire lifetime without any contact with LEO's and violent people (much less two sandwich eating contacts).

I have very deliberately kept these scenarios brief, uncluttered, and self-centered. I have considered your (and many more) "what-ifs", Condition Yellow, my responsibility for securing the weapon, prosecutors and police scouring the internet, etc. at length. They are valid, but they simply take up too much space here. I've talked at length one on one with the lady who trains Scotland Yard, Interpol, the FBI, and many other large LE agencies around the world in how global and local criminals obtain data on their targets online. It would take her just minutes to find out your grade school daughter's daily itinerary and your family vacation schedule, for example, and many kidnapers, molesters, and ordinary burglars use her techniques.

Just as armor for WSing definitely lets me sail harder and 4WD lets one get stuck worse, carrying certainly can over-expand one's confidence in the street. One author put it this way: "Never go anywhere with a gun that you would not go without it."

The Chief of the NM State Police tells his safety lecture audiences that he draws only after deciding to kill; the rest is strictly mechanics.

Aside from the physical challenges of stopping a vehicle with an ordinary gun, I can't imagine why a rational jury or prosecutor would convict someone for doing the same thing as citizens who shoot shooters in the act in the simplified scenarios I presented. How are semis and automobiles being deliberately used as a weapon any less life-threatening than a gun? An armed citizen shot a shooter just days ago in Portland without blowback. What would YOU do, on or off duty but without electronic communication or police lights, if you were the passenger, or even the driver, in my cases as presented, clean of hypothetical what-ifs?

Whether I CAN shoot a person, I have no idea. One minor experience implies I'd freeze, but stronger experiences, like that car repeatedly threatening my life, imply I could if necessary. I had an hour think about that situation in advance and almost 50 years to think about it since then, and still think a gun was the only safe (for me and anyone else besides him) solution.

Any high-mileage driver who never met a LEO on duty never tried to eat a GD sammich (just one sandwich, but it fits many topics) or sleep in their van down by the river in California (or Florida or Texas), were never profiled (by the officer's open admission) in Florida, never got a ticket for driving 67 in an empty 65 zone in rural NM, never got scammed by a hidden speed limit sign the state government removed within days after my evidentiary photos reached the state White House, never had a taillight go out, never got yelled at for minutes for taking a corner at 20-25 mph in a 40 zone (he admitted he was "closely watching" my "high-performance car" -- a stock Subaru -- in his mirrors), etc. ... etc. ... annnnnnnd etc. High-mileage drivers who have never seen another driver deliberately target other cars are either not paying attention to what's going on around them or are used to it.

I omitted the cases where I was contributory, even if not illegally.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why does Social Security Admin need millions of hollow points? 1.6 billion rounds for the homeland, not the military. Enough to kill everyone 5 times.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13867

PostPosted: Fri Feb 08, 2013 9:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Why does Social Security Admin need millions of hollow points? 1.6 billion rounds for the homeland, not the military. Enough to kill everyone 5 times.

One reason might be that officers who shoot 90% on a tactical range hit similar targets only 5%-50% of the time in the real world. The primary difference is the astounding effects of that much adrenaline on every part of our bodies ... hearing (cut by 80 to 140 decibels, and that's not a misprint), vision (super-sharp in a 3-degree cone -- like looking through a paper towel tube -- but reduced to virtually zero outside that cone), dexterity (we're told to soak our hands in slush for two minutes then try to draw and shoot, for a comparison), distance perception (off by hundreds of percent), time perception (it all but stops; one officer said he saw a covey of beer cans slowly floating in front of his eyes in a shootout, each with the label "Federal" embossed on its bottom. They were empty shells flying from his partner's weapon.) How many shots get fired in some police shootouts, not even counting the one John mentioned in LA ... dozens? Hundreds? Probably a thousand in that LA battle with just 4 robbers.

Ditto for nuclear weapons arsenals; ya don't want to run out of warheads before ya "win" -- such as it is -- the war. Many factors, including warhead fratricide and aircraft vulnerability (our primary nuclear bomb delivery airplane was built in the 1950s), cut into the number of successful hits, and blast, not radiation, wins the immediate contest.

With hardened targets, whether humans or bunkers, this ain't horseshoes or hand grenades; close doesn't count.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13867

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

"When seconds count, police are just minutes away."

The incidents related in this 6-minute talking head video (there's no visible gore, so you tender souls who'd rather let your child die than see a criminal's body on your screen or your floor are sheltered from reality) occur in the home, where concealment is not required, but many, maybe most, of the 16,000 murders committed by sociopaths every year are 1) outside the home and 2) beyond the reach of police until after the fact. i.e., the authorities at a murder scene are more likely to need their chalk and a mop than their guns. That's why this retired cop wants every good citizen to have a concealed carry permit and advises exercising that right at your discretion.

http://tinyurl.com/asv3urq
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2369

PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2013 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
ya don't want to run out of warheads before ya "win" --
you're so cute when you do "folksy"
_________________
/w\
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3961

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Home tax business in Michigan invaded. However they had security in their home with an AR-15.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AXeqN2jT1Y
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13867

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oregon is so swamped with concealed carry permit requests that the wait time in many counties just to get an appointment to file the application is several months. Some BIG pistol and rifle magazine manufacturers have stopped making magazines until the stupid and purely political magazine size legal battle is settled. Gun and ammo sales are up 500%-1,000% as people everywhere are buying lifetime supplies.

Why?

Because they believe -- some would say "know" -- that the far left, including Obama, will try to emasculate, maybe obliterate, the Second Amendment. A college classmate who spoke with Obama often in school claims "Barack" told him "I don't believe anyone should own a gun." Ridiculous? A pending Missouri bill with an appreciable chance of passing ignores the Constitution by confiscating anything resembling an "assault weapon". No fair compensation, no exceptions, just taking your private property, at gunpoint if necessary, because they wannit.

That's how Hitler started.

BTW, I ran across a concealed carry permit incentive which applies to every gun owner in the country: Driving within 1,000 feet of a school with any firearm anywhere in your vehicle without a CC permit is a federal felony. Driving 21 mph in a school zone, changing lanes without signaling for 300 feet, weaving slightly as you change radio stations ... anything that gets you pulled over within a couple of blocks from a school you didn't even know existed ... with that broken and empty .22 plinker revolver stashed in your trunk can lead to a federal felony conviction.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2588

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikey wrote:
... with that broken and empty .22 plinker revolver stashed in your trunk can lead to a federal felony conviction.

The sky is falling. Be afraid. Be very afraid.
.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1922

PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2013 6:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Colorado State House just passed a law requiring background checks for private sales and a magazine limit of 15 rounds. Senate is next and the Gov will sign this law. Other proposed laws, including "assault weapons" ban, liability for gun owners, and mandatory registration will, likely, not make it past the process.

Again, I ask. Why can't states determine their own laws regarding guns? If a relatively conservative state, such as Colo, can pass gun control legislation, other states will also. It may not be as satisfying to the liberals, but the results will be the same.
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