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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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 Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| slinky wrote: | | He who lives by the sword dies by the sword |
That's very harsh.
Not much different than saying that he deserved to die.
It really is sad that a decorated serviceman could die like that, still serving and just trying to help vets with PTSD. |
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windoggi
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2743
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| nw30 wrote: | | vets with PTSD. |
Just who I want to be next to at a gun range.
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:26 am Post subject: |
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NW--do you get it yet?
| Quote: | | just trying to help vets with PTSD. |
Neither war nor shooting people outside of war is actually good for your mental well-being. Yet we have over 1000 overseas bases and a culture of violence, and you can't seem to see the connections.
Must be from listening to Murdoch. |
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wynsurfer
Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 940
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:44 am Post subject: |
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| I meant no disrespect to the sharpshooter who was shot. It is a yet another sensless tragedy. I thought it very stangely ironic. Karma? I realized after posting some might take it the wrong way. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 11:58 am Post subject: |
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| nw30 wrote: | | slinky wrote: | | He who lives by the sword dies by the sword |
That's very harsh.
Not much different than saying that he deserved to die.
It really is sad that a decorated serviceman could die like that, still serving and just trying to help vets with PTSD. |
I posted this before Slinky's explanation, above, showed up. But because it still applies to the others here who have expressed that mindset, I'm letting it stand. Slinky gets a pass this time ... maybe (his implication that it was karma says he equates combat to murder, which is insane) ... but what was he thinking?
Good Freaking God! Was Slinky talking about Kyle? That's sick beyond belief. I presumed he was talking about my self-defense scenarios.
He's apparently among those sorry ingrates in this group who think soldiers do not deserve any benefits or consideration beyond their active duty paycheck. [Some brainwashed ingrates here specifically extend that to combat veterans (some expressly even to cops and firemen), who get more benefits than support troops and deserve still more.] You may be right; Slinky apparently thinks the soldiers deserve to die because they risk their lives killing enemy combatants to protect his ungrateful ass. This group's twisted and dangerous ignorance makes me question the application of the First Amendment to today's schools and heavily biased media. Where else would people get such disturbed ideas?
If more people thought -- or didn't think -- like that, I wonder how these thankless wretches would (or WILL) like it when they or their kids get drafted into a war, as I did, because there aren't/weren't enough volunteers. |
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mogunn
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1307
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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| slinky wrote: | | He who lives by the sword dies by the sword |
This is relevant in the context of this discussion and to answer your comment with hate and derision surely proves the point.
That Mikey would twist the sentiment of your comment into a supposed rant against the military, firemen and police only shows the true nature of his character and his lack of understanding the genesis of the phrase and its true meaning.
Perhaps if his reading regimen included more from Martin Luther King Jr, Gandhi, Khalil Gibran, Nelson Mandela or the words of Jesus rather than ... | isobars wrote: | | All the books I'm reading are written and reviewed by world-famous, often legendary, cops, shooters, trainers, and/or police psychiatrists … |
his world would be a better place.
Whether a sword or a digital input device, what goes around comes around, as evidenced on this forum.
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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This has become mind boggling. There are a number of studies that have analyzed what it takes to get a recruit in the military to overcome the normal human inhibitions against taking lives. Here's a brief summary of one, taken, I know, from Wikipedia:
| Quote: | On Killing: The Psychological Cost of Learning to Kill in War and Society is a book by Lt.Col. Dave Grossman exploring the psychology of the act of killing and the military and law enforcement establishments' attempt to understand and deal with the consequences of killing.
The book is based on SLA Marshall's studies from World War II, which proposed that contrary to popular perception,[1] the majority of soldiers in war do not ever fire their weapons and that this is due to an innate resistance to killing. Based on Marshall's studies the military instituted training measures to break down this resistance[citation needed] and successfully raised soldier's firing rates to over ninety percent during the war in Vietnam.
Grossman points out that there are great psychological costs that weigh heavily on the combat soldier or police officer who kills if they are not mentally prepared for what may happen; if their actions (killing) are not supported by their commanders and/or peers; and if they are unable to justify their actions (or if no one else justifies the actions for them). |
Great psychological costs indeed. Consider these two prospects 1) the tinyness of the minds of the gun nuts, who have such a pessimistic view, and perhaps experience, of humans such that they devote a huge amount of time to preparing to kill someone, and be psychologically prepared to do so, and 2) the idea that this sniper ex-GI figured that the best possible way to help other ex-GI's deal with post traumatic stress was to go to the firing range and rip off a few rounds.
I really feel very sorry for people whose world view is so heavily colored by such fear. It must be a very scary and unhappy world for the gun nuts in this country. |
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jp5
Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 3394
Location: OnUr6
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| You should have seen all the dudes dressed in camo at the gun show Mac. Walking out with cases of .223, which sold out by noon the first day. |
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johnl
Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1330
Location: Hood River OR
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | . In what state (besides CA; it doesn't count) can a person not take ANY action to defend a family member from a gun being pointed at them?
2. |
Mike you really don't live in the real world. Let me see, somebody with about 29 years DEALING with the stuff (2 years working jails talking and watching criminals, 7 years working in courts and observing trials from traffic to felony some even made national news, and then 19+ years in patrol) and you have zero. Yet somehow you think you know everything, unbelievable. Most police agencies have had to rewrite their general orders several times over the last 20 years because of the changing laws.
The thought that you can do "any action" (your words not mine) is crazy. NOWHERE in any legal book is that written. However the word REASONABLE is written there and just about everywhere. But not your idea of reasonable, but what "a reasonable man" would do. And as you might get from the fact that nobody here agrees with you, it is safe to say you are not that reasonable person they are talking about.....
Oh yeah, and while California might be leading the law enforcement of the country, I guarantee the others are catching up. Same with the laws. It is getting harder and harder legally to take a life. Maybe the people who make the laws think that somebody's life is worth more than your TV.....
Last edited by johnl on Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:32 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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johnl
Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1330
Location: Hood River OR
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| Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| slinky wrote: | | I meant no disrespect to the sharpshooter who was shot. It is a yet another sensless tragedy. I thought it very stangely ironic. Karma? I realized after posting some might take it the wrong way. |
Personally I think it was real bad choice of words. To take it further, it might be thought that you think it is "Karma" or "Ironic" that any Military person who was forced to learn to kill to defend their country, survives war and comes home to be shot and killed in the US. "Karma" and "Ironic" are two words that I don't think come close to applying.
On the other hand, a person shooting civilians in the US getting sniped, or a bomb maker getting killed by his/her own bomb would probably qualify. But that is because there is a big difference between a soldier and a civilian bomber/gunman..... |
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