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Gun Nuts
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1193
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
yes, many, like 98% of gun carriers have inadaquate training.
Even most policeman just qualify with their sidearms once a year, if that, and the shotgun and CAR in the trunk even less.
Wish it was simple point and shoot, and the right DECISION to pull it out in the first place, but it isn't.
.....


Zirtaeb, where do you get your "facts"? Having worked at 3 different police agencies, I can tell you all 3 required quarterly qualifications with firearms and annual qualifications with long guns. Even the less restrictive agencies require semi-annual qualifications. And unfortunately not enough agencies carry the CAR in the trunk. Several started after the LA shooting but unfortunately many agencies delayed going to it and then just didn't. I wrote up a proposal for our agency to start carrying one and I can tell you it required annual qualifications.

And most agencies now use a FATS system to practice the decision part of qualifications. I went to it twice (once a year towards the end of my service), some other agencies do that quarterly.

I have to admitt that I don't know if civilian training includes it, plus the software wasn't really written for civilians since the shoot/don't shoot scenarios are what LEO's face every day, not what civilians do.

BUT the FIRST thing I tell anybody who comes to me asking about getting a gun to defend themselves is if you can't pull the trigger and kill somebody do NOT get the gun. You don't shoot to wound, and you don't point to scare. That just doesn't work, and most of the time ends up with the perp just taking your gun....
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2431

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 5:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I knew and know at least 10 officers of SFPD, and at least 2 sheriffs.
I was one of the jurors in the case of that shooting in the Hall of Justice that the bad guy emptied two sixguns and the cops shot him 41 times.
Competing at two PracticalPistol shots, I met dozens of LawEnforcement officers of various cities.
Quarterly qualitifcations? That was unheard of back in the '80's.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2408

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:

BUT the FIRST thing I tell anybody who comes to me asking about getting a gun to defend themselves is if you can't pull the trigger and kill somebody do NOT get the gun. You don't shoot to wound, and you don't point to scare. That just doesn't work, and most of the time ends up with the perp just taking your gun....


That is the crux of the home defense back and forth. Now, lets hear iso out- expert you. Actually, he didn't flinch taking out that tomcat.

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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1193
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
I knew and know at least 10 officers of SFPD, and at least 2 sheriffs.
I was one of the jurors in the case of that shooting in the Hall of Justice that the bad guy emptied two sixguns and the cops shot him 41 times.
Competing at two PracticalPistol shots, I met dozens of LawEnforcement officers of various cities.
Quarterly qualitifcations? That was unheard of back in the '80's.


80's??? You do know it is 2013 now right? Things have changed. We have created fire!! Smile
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1193
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windoggie wrote:
johnl wrote:

BUT the FIRST thing I tell anybody who comes to me asking about getting a gun to defend themselves is if you can't pull the trigger and kill somebody do NOT get the gun. You don't shoot to wound, and you don't point to scare. That just doesn't work, and most of the time ends up with the perp just taking your gun....


That is the crux of the home defense back and forth. Now, lets hear iso out- expert you. Actually, he didn't flinch taking out that tomcat.


Oh, I'm sure he had read hundreds of books, talked to thousands of people, and has shot millions of rounds. Smile My ONLY question is how does he have time for this when he is windsurfing for 10 hours per day?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johnl wrote

Quote:
BUT the FIRST thing I tell anybody who comes to me asking about getting a gun to defend themselves is if you can't pull the trigger and kill somebody do NOT get the gun. You don't shoot to wound, and you don't point to scare. That just doesn't work, and most of the time ends up with the perp just taking your gun...


Why I won't carry!!
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2408

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm an isophile, I admit it. The guy fascinates me. I would love to meet him anonymously sometime and ask for advice about something.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2408

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
Johnl wrote

Quote:
BUT the FIRST thing I tell anybody who comes to me asking about getting a gun to defend themselves is if you can't pull the trigger and kill somebody do NOT get the gun. You don't shoot to wound, and you don't point to scare. That just doesn't work, and most of the time ends up with the perp just taking your gun...


Why I won't carry!!
I'm with you. I've managed to get out of lots of hairy situations by relying on my charm alone.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14483

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
I'm sure he had read hundreds of books, talked to thousands of people, and has shot millions of rounds. Smile My ONLY question is how does he have time for this when he is windsurfing for 10 hours per day?

Smile
Two books and counting (squeezed in among a large pile of books on the economy as it pertains to me), several people including LEOs, several courses scheduled and/or pending, hundreds of rounds, and I haven't so much as looked at a wind forecast since the river dropped to 46 degrees. Crying or Very sad
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14483

PostPosted: Fri Feb 01, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
You don't shoot to wound, and you don't point to scare. That just doesn't work, and most of the time ends up with the perp just taking your gun....

But how do we know until the crap hits the fan? Massad Ayood sez, "It's better to have a gun and not need it than to need one and not have it" ... but I'll bet he lives in a very different environment than I do.
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