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Gun Nuts
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5259

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With the exception of Far Left, the usual suspects continue to mangle critical thinking and scare themselves with made up stories.

First, to the use of anecdotes to try to prove trends. Here are the numbers--30,000 or so gun deaths in the United States, in 2010 in Australia there were 236 (http://www.gunpolicy.org/firearms/region/australia) Ignore the ravings from the lunatic in Richland. Certainly there are cases among the 30,000 where there was legitimate self-defense. Citing ten of those doesn't explain the other 29,000 or so difference. Leaving out suicides, 67% of the 16,000 or so murders in the country are committed with guns.

Second, the specious reasoning, pioneered by the apologists for the gun industry, is again repeated. There will still be murders, so wring your hands and do nothing. Of course there will still be murders, but some type of reasonable and constitutional gun control can reduce the number.

Third, any effort to regulate guns is contrary to the Second Amendment. Not so--read the Supreme Court's language which I cited in this thread.

Fourth, Obama and Feinstein are coming after the guns of law abiding citizens. This invokes Dan Hicks' wonderful song, "I Scare Myself." People are trying to figure out ways to limit the availability of guns to those who are unbalanced and criminal. I will support the right of law-abiding citizens to keep a gun in their homes, despite the fact that accidents that kill children are far more common than successful self-defense incidents:

Quote:
Childhood gun and shooting accidents are not rare.

They are one of the top ten leading causes of accidental death for all age groups outside of newborns and infants.

In 2007, there were 122 unintentional firearm deaths in children, and an additional 3,060 nonfatal gun and shooting accidents, which resulted in an estimated 1,375 children needing to be hospitalized for their injuries. Unintentional firearm deaths in children have remained at about the same levels since, with 114 deaths in children and teens less than age 18 in 2010.
http://pediatrics.about.com/od/safety/a/gun-accidents.htm

My father knew about statistics, and this phenomenon, and would not let me buy a gun as a teenager. He was far wiser than most. But this is a matter of parental responsibility, or irresponsibility. In 2010 there were 600 deaths by gun accident.

Of course the next problem is suicide, which accounts for 54% of gun deaths, far more than homicides at 41%. That trend is reversed for the young--where 62% of the deaths in the 15 to 19 year old cohort is homicide. http://www.ojjdp.gov/pubs/gun_violence/sect01.html

Now we come to the only statistically valid concern I've heard, which is that hand guns are the leading cause of murders and assault rifles account for only a small part of the problem. It is a bit hard to track down the nature of murders by gun type--I only saw data for Chicago, which has about half of the murders committed using hand guns. The ownership numbers seem pretty clear--about 100 million of the 300 million guns in this country are hand guns.

So what do I think should be done? First, I think that all gun purchases should be registered and insured. That means I think we should target the 2000 to 5000 gun shows each year in the country and ensure that the guns, and the owners, are both insured and registered. That is not prohbition of gun ownership, it is responsible gun ownership. (There is a marvelous little op-ed piece in the San Francisco Chronicle this morning about insurance--see http://www.sfgate.com/opinion/openforum/article/Mandatory-insurance-might-control-guns-4184778.php) Second, I think that we should do the same with purchase of ammunition. This would allow at least some tracking of the use of guns acquired illegally. I do think that Far Left's concerns about the actual pattern of use of guns in violence needs to inform our approach. We need to focus on Constitutionally allowable ways that will reduce the ease at which firearms can be bought illegally in our cities.


Finally, I want to leave you with a very interesting reference that provides more detail, and more nuance, than is available on the talk radio circuit. http://www.theatlanticcities.com/neighborhoods/2012/12/geography-us-gun-violence/4171/

This article shows that gun violence has cleavage lines along race, poverty, and urban/rural lines. The risks that guns represent are different on each side of these divides, and it does pay to understand a few facts before one spews their opinion. I would also recommend this site, which includes detailed statistics and a link to the Supreme Court's findings: http://www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14233

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When he initiated this thread, FarLeft wrote:
Genuinely interested in hearing everyone's responses, reactions, opinions, and emotions.

But he revealed his true colors when he wrote:
IT'S THE FRINGE MORONS LIKE YOU AND THAT DOUCHE-BAG THAT GIVE THE OTHER 99% OF RESPONSIBLE GUN NUTS A BAD NAME!!!

He's obviously one of the imbalanced loons I've killfiled, and it shows. That's OK; the killfile magazine has an infinite capacity.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2399

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
That's OK; the killfile magazine has an infinite capacity.
fuck you asshole
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2399

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

and furthermore, I'd take that comment as a personal threat and report it to the FBI
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5832

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"He's obviously one of the imbalanced loons I've killfiled, and it shows. That's OK; the killfile magazine has an infinite capacity."



And what does that say about the twisted character from the Great Northwest? From my perspective, I have to say that I wholeheartedly agree with windoggie's comments in his 19:53 post.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5259

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Typical of Isobars grasp of facts:

Quote:
When he initiated this thread, FarLeft wrote:


Now I know he killfiled me, and I'm not surprised--Mike can't participate in a fair fight or argument--but I'm pretty sure I initiated the thread. Of course, his unwillingness to pay attention to the facts, much less the views of anyone else--and his irrational anger is why he uses violent language. It's why he doesn't respond, why he owns guns, and why he threatens people. He is a coward. Plain and simple. A punk.
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2375
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

He's obviously one of the imbalanced loons I've killfiled, and it shows. That's OK; the killfile magazine has an infinite capacity.


Lighten up Francis.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14233

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
More people are murdered with clubs than guns.

The Columbine killer had planted propane gas bombs ... the poor man's version of the fuel-air bomb, one of the military's most powerful non-nuclear bombs. The mixture fills the air, including everyone's lungs, and is then detonated.

Cult killer Jim Jones used a generic brand of KoolAide.

Drunk, sleep-deprived, and texting drivers use their cars to commit manslaughter.

Anyone who really wants to commit murder or doesn't care if he commits manslaughter don't need no steenkin' AR-15 or 30-round magazine.
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coyotewindsurf



Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1269
Location: SF Bay

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpbassking wrote:

Lighten up Francis.

Laughing Laughing Laughing

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mo
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2375
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2013 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading about a federal employee being reprimanded for excessive gas passing I finally figured out what Iso's disability is.
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