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Gun Nuts
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14612

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 1:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
I do understand that others may not live in as safe an environment as I ...

Clipped and pasted from the list of questions I plan to ask the instructors of the extensive legal and practical gun courses my wife and I are signed up for:

"What convinces normal people to carry? I donít feel threatened, and we are very seldom out and about at night.
OTOH, from personal experience:
3 to 4 instances of semis* deliberately knocking cars off highway
Car tried many times to tap my bumper late at night at high speeds
Twice investigated suspected thefts
Pistol in my face on highway and no cops cared
Van tried repeatedly to knock my motorcycle off the highway
Car tried to run my wifeís motorcycle off a city street
Two home burglaries, one may have been in home when wife returned
Giant dog attacked our dog, wife fought it off by hand
Both of us getting old, wife inviting target for muggers
Camping at Clatskenie/Jones Beach (dangerous Gorge sailing venue)
Am I answering my own question? "

* Call 911, and if necessary and possible, disable the semi. My brother watched helplessly as a semi repeatedly knocked multiple cars off a freeway at > 70 mph over a stretch of miles; one or two of those cars rolled. I've seen that very definitely tried multiple times myself.

In the thousands of nights I've slept outdoors, I've felt compelled only once to take my weapon in hand, but out of sight, due to someone approaching my vehicle as we slept. It turned out to be a cop, and I advised him to identify himself next time for everyone's safety.

When Florida instituted the same policy 10-20 years ago that Washington state has -- "shall carry", meaning any law-abiding citizen has a legal right to get a concealed carry permit -- violent crimes went way down statewide (its number of residents with concealed carry permits reportedly leads the nation). The only consistent exception was assaults on rental cars leaving the Miami airport, whose drivers are obviously unarmed. They had to stop putting rental car badges on the cars to stop the carnage.

Has any gun confiscation advocate down the block or in the Congress or administration proposed ANY intent or practical means to confiscate criminals' weapons? How many criminals will be giving up their weapons for a tiny fraction of their legal resale value in response to Seattle's insane new buy-back offer? They offer $100 in Amazon credit for a handgun worth a grand!

THINK about that, people. How many of you feel secure knowing that the only means of defending your unarmed family against a violent assault is some cop 10-30 minutes away in various cities ... THE NEXT DAY in some notorious cases and REFUSAL TO RESPOND AT ALL from city, county, AND state police after a man stuck a semi-automatic pistol in my face on an Albuquerque city street? I've had various unarmed friends violently mugged and hospitalized (LA), robbed at gunpoint in the daytime (Albuquerque), raped, dismembered (Alabama), and shot to death (Florida), and I've had to employ my sprinting skills to evade two assailants armed with broken bottles (Utah) ... and I never even go into bars.

Obviously we escaped those incidents, those times. But what about the next such incident? What about the next victims of those aggressors? Remember: the job of the police is to clean up the mess and possibly, someday, arrest someone. The job of the courts is to slap perps' wrists, maybe even inconvenience them for a month or a year or two. The largest number of people who can and DO actually prevent violent crimes are law-abiding people, on the spot, real time, with a weapon and the skills and will to use it. (That includes a shoulder through a sternum, but that was a rare opportunity.)
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2409

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:


Car tried many times to tap my bumper late at night at high speeds
Pistol in my face on highway and no cops cared
Van tried repeatedly to knock my motorcycle off the highway

Wow, I thought it was just us who think you're irritating.

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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2763

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

windoggie wrote:
isobars wrote:


Car tried many times to tap my bumper late at night at high speeds
Pistol in my face on highway and no cops cared
Van tried repeatedly to knock my motorcycle off the highway

Wow, I thought it was just us who think you're irritating.

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Laughing Laughing Laughing
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2036

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
I agree completely.it is the NRAs insistence that I really need heavy military hardware, ever escalating into huge clips for your AR15 that you bought ten at a time at a gun show without any background check, to live that life.
You might need to mail order the full auto conversions to convert all ten of them, but maybe not. The guy at the show can hook you up.


KC... I agree. The skill required to safely use such a weapon for self defense is beyond the typical gun owner. However, they are fun to use on a rifle range. Why couldn't those folks that "play" with these guns at a legitimate shooting range check the weapon in at the end of the day? Seems like a reasonable compromise.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14612

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
The skill required to safely use such a weapon for self defense is beyond the typical gun owner.

Our local SWAT team says most self defense shootings occur within arms' reach. Not only is that indicative of a real threat, but it also doesn't require a lot of skill. Factor in a shotgun and it requires even less skill.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2036

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
The skill required to safely use such a weapon for self defense is beyond the typical gun owner.

Our local SWAT team says most self defense shootings occur within arms' reach. Not only is that indicative of a real threat, but it also doesn't require a lot of skill. Factor in a shotgun and it requires even less skill.


And, does not require an AR15! In fact, the complexities of using that weapon in self defense would probably be a hinderance.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14612

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Depends on how many bad guys are coming at you and whether you live in the Idaho panhandle! Wink
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2036

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In all seriousness. An AR15 weapon is a poor choice for protection. Although it does have merit as a recreational firearm (the .223 caliber is an excellent target round).

This weapon was used in Conn and Colo mass shootings. Can anyone argue that this gun has a role in protecting second amendment rights? In the interest of reducing the potential for these types of killings, shouldn't responsible gun owners consider restricting the sale and use of this, and similar, weapons?
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2409

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a few older inherited weapons. I keep them hidden far away, out of fear of losing them to burglars. I have a funky old .12 gauge single shot in the house, but I can't imagine pulling it out for anything less than a zombie attack. The deal is, is that they're nice well worn machines. The late forties era Winchester model 12 pump was my dads pheasant gun and is a real beauty. What I don't get is the assault weapon fetish. They have no more soul than a staple gun. They're only made for killing people, or practicing to kill people. Those weapons, and people who own them give me the creeps.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1916
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been trying to stay away from this thread because it's nothing but a bunch of boneheads posting here, but this is just too much.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Biden pledges urgent Obama action on gun control
Jan 9, 7:35 PM (ET)

By ERICA WERNER

WASHINGTON (AP) - Vice President Joe Biden vowed urgent action against gun violence in America Wednesday, pledging steps by the Obama administration that he said could "take thousands of people out of harm's way" and improve the safety of millions more.

But a day ahead of a meeting with the National Rifle Association, which has sunk past gun control efforts and is opposing any new ones, Biden signaled that the administration is mindful of political realities that could imperil sweeping gun control legislation, and is willing to settle for something less. He said the administration is considering its own executive action as well as measures by Congress, but he didn't offer specifics.

"I want to make it clear that we are not going to get caught up in the notion that unless we can do everything, we're going to do nothing," Biden told an array of gun control advocates, crime victims and others at the White House. "It's critically important we act."

Shortly after last month's slaughter of schoolchildren at Newtown, Conn., President Barack Obama tasked Biden with heading a commission to come up with recommendations on gun policy by the end of this month. Obama supports steps including reinstating a ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines and closing loopholes that allow many gun buyers to avoid background checks.

The Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence says that some 40 percent of gun sales are made without background checks, such as at gun shows and over the Internet.

The tragedy in Newtown, in which 20 young children and six adults were gunned down by a man with a military-style semiautomatic rifle, has prodded the administration to act. Obama had remained largely silent on gun control after the 2011 shootings in Tucson, Ariz., that killed six people and wounded 12 others including then-Rep. Gabrielle Giffords, and the Colorado movie theater killing of a dozen people and wounding of many more last July.

Connecticut is moving cautiously on gun control, but Gov. Andrew Cuomo in neighboring New York proposed a wide-ranging package of restrictions on Wednesday. He called for loopholes to be closed in a New York ban on assault weapons and ammunition magazines that carry more than 10 bullets. The Democrat also wants to require holders of handgun licenses to undergo follow-ups to make sure they are still qualified to possess a weapon, and he is calling for increased sentences for certain gun crimes.

Biden, referring to the Newtown shootings, said at the White House: "Every once in a while, there's something that awakens the conscience of the country, and that tragic event did it in a way like nothing I've seen in my career."

"The president and I are determined to take action. ... We can affect the wellbeing of millions of Americans and take thousands of people out of harm's way if we act responsibly."

Biden said that the administration is weighing executive action in addition to recommending legislation by Congress. Recommendations to the Biden group include making gun-trafficking a felony, getting the Justice Department to prosecute people caught lying on gun background-check forms and ordering federal agencies to send data to the National Gun Background Check Database.

Some of those pieces could happen by executive action, but congressional say-so would be needed for more far-reaching changes such as reinstating the ban on assault weapons and high-capacity ammunition magazines. Congress let the ban expire in 2004 under heavy pressure from the NRA. Democrats blamed a backlash against some lawmakers who voted for its enactment 10 years earlier for steep election losses that year.

Since then Democrats have been wary of legislating on guns, and efforts have fizzled in Congress. Already there are signs any new legislative effort by Obama could face tough going. Some pro-gun Democrats have voiced doubts, and the Senate's top Republican has warned it could be spring before Congress begins considering any gun legislation.

Obama has said that his efforts on guns can be successful only if he has the support of the public, and advocates who attended Wednesday's Biden meeting said part of the White House message was for participants to spread the word and keep up pressure on Washington.

"They have made clear that they're in this for the long haul and they want us to be in this for the long haul," said Dan Gross, president of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence.

Advocates participating in Wednesday's meeting, some of whom have been critical of Obama's silence on guns in the past, said they were optimistic that the president and Biden are committed to the effort this time around.

"I think it's for real," said Shira Goodman, executive director of CeaseFirePA.

Biden also held a call with Wednesday with more than 30 governors, mayors and other state and local officials to get their input on ways to curb gun violence.

For Biden, Thursday will bring a tougher audience when the NRA joins a meeting at the White House along with other gun-owner groups and retailers including Wal-Mart. NRA officials didn't return messages for comment Wednesday but the group's executive vice president, Wayne LaPierre, has dismissed the assault weapons ban as "a phony piece of legislation" and has recommended putting armed guards in all schools as a way to stop another school shooting.

Biden said he wanted to hear from "all parties, on whatever side of this debate you fall."

The president hopes to announce his administration's next steps to tackle gun violence shortly after he is sworn in for a second term on Jan. 21.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20130110/DA3N0POG2.html
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Executive action, a presidential decree, no congress involved, fine deal.
Does BHO really think he knows what he's dealing with?
Could he really be that arrogant?
I don't care if he won the re-election, he really doesn't have a mandate, he wasn't swept back into office. If he goes down this road of "Executive Action", he may have finally gone a step too far, I wouldn't want to predict the results of this if it were to happen.
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