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2 bolt quick release vs single twisty type base.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2026

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe,
The mechanical is a huge advantage for changing sails on ultra-wide boards on the water which is why we use them for our beginner boards.

One advantage you left off your list is board/rig quick change. If you sail at a place that has radically changing water state with the tides while the wind remains the same than a two bolt is far faster & easier when switching boards.

Coachg
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 215
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coachg:

The mechanical base will be for my 94 cm board with the 10-oh sail Smile
ie ideal base for that setup...

When I read about switching boards and the 2 bolt system being quicker, i thought initially you were crazy Confused
Then i realized this implied base plates on the two(2) boards.
I have more than one single bolt mast base and thus that argument for switching boards would not be preferential to one type of bolt system over the other ...
and as someone said - with seven(7) boards, would one buy that many base plates ?? guessing not ...

the single bolt system is quick to switch - when cold the US cup is the PITA
then i spin the bolt instead and take off by mast base!!!

jw
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14635

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 9:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joethewindsufa wrote:
When I read about switching boards and the 2 bolt system being quicker, i thought initially you were crazy Confused
Then i realized this implied base plates on the two(2) boards.
I have more than one single bolt mast base and thus that argument for switching boards would not be preferential to one type of bolt system over the other ...
and as someone said - with seven(7) boards, would one buy that many base plates ?? guessing not ...

the single bolt system is quick to switch

As each fresh board comes out of the vehicle and each sail gets rigged in response to changing conditions or preferences, the pile of plug'n'play toys lying on the ground grows. Towards evening, sailing time becomes precious, so the time required to plug just the right sail into just the right board becomes ever more precious. That's one scenario in which the 10:1 switch time advantage really pays off.

Another is the MANY days on which the wind never settles down, varying dramatically from one short session, maybe even one reach, to the next. Again, trying to satisfy conditions and choices all day like that is vastly easier with plug'n'play bases ... i.e., two-bolts.

Then there's the scenario in which somebody wants to borrow or lend a sail or a board. Virtually everyone around here uses two-bolt Chinooks, so the plug'n'play concept stretches clear down the beach.

And HELL yes we have a plate (and fin) on every board we own. I learned 30 years ago that shred time is priceless, whereas two-bolt plates (and B&J/wave fins) cost peanuts. I can buy 8 two-bolt Chinook plates or 3-4 excellent B&J/wave fins at swap meets for the cost of gas for an afternoon sailing trip.

Life is short, accessories are cheap, and every minute of wasted time is ... well ... wasted. Besides, I can sell all those fins and two-bolt plates at no loss, if not for a small profit, when get too old to need 'em any more. You could even say they're on lifetime loan.

Mike \m/
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2026

PostPosted: Sun Jan 06, 2013 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe,

As Iso’s pointed out, the bases are cheap if you get them used as they do last forever. Most of my base plates cost $5 to $10. Other base plates were taken off boards that someone had tossed out.

I do prefer 2 bolt but some of my sailing requires 1 bolt. I have found that having extras in this sport is a good thing. Laughing

Coachg
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fxop



Joined: 13 Jun 1998
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always used single bolt but I find myself wondering about that choice when I'm 1/2 mile offshore in cold, rough water. If something happened out there where I wanted to ditch the rig and paddle in I don't think I could unscrew the bolt from the board. I know this because sometimes I have trouble doing it back on the beach after a session -- have to get some help from a rubber mallet.

Maybe I over-tighten but my only separation was 20 years ago from a single bolt that came loose and worked its way out of the slot.

Anybody have accidental separations from the two bolt?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6034

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes down to universals, there are a number of ways that they can fail. While all the focus in this thread has been about the attachment to the board, we shouldn't forget the attachment to the mast extension.

Many times in the past, when I was using the US base cup with the 2-pin attachment, I've had one of the pins shear off. Although it never led to a separation out on the water, a good argument can be made that it might under certain conditions. After coming in and discovering the problem, I never was foolish enough not to address the problem and immediately replace it with a new 2-pin spring component. In fact, it has happened so many times to me, I have an inventory of them in the van just like I carry extra line. Also, I have found that all the US base cup universals that I've ever owned ultimately wear and get so wobbly that I stop using them for fear of failure. I've found that it only took a season or two for this to happen. After years of experiencing these two kinds of problems, when I switched to RDM masts, I also made the switch to Euro-pin design universals.

However, by switching over to the Euro-pin attachment design, it must be recognized that with many of the brands out there, the pin just screws into the top component of the universal. I've heard that many folks have experienced a failure related to the pin breaking or coming unfastened. To be safe, I only buy the Chinook one piece SS universal where the top component of the universal and the pin are machined out of a single piece of SS.

Lastly, using either the tendon or hourglass connection between the top and bottom components of the universal, both can and do break. Fortunately both designs incorporate either line(s) or webbing to hold everything together should a failure occur. Do most folks regularly check whether these safety retention attachments are in sound condition?

So, for all you folks who think that the 2-bolt universal attachment gives you the ultimate safety and security, think again.
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dhmark



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 216

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only point to add is that when the single bolt works its way loose due to not tightening it enough, in my experience the universal always slipped to the front of the mast box, never coming out. Thus it was never a catastrophic problem on the few occasions it occurred. Per the prior post, I agree that the bolt does not seem to be the most vulnerable part of the universal. dhmark
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1333
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 3:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Experience is the opposite, in that the mast slid to the opening in
the mast track (in my case the back) and then out. So I wouldn't count
on that saving you if you don't get your base plate in tight enough.

I still use single (and dual) bolt base plates. Any thing can fail, and
if you sail long enough, it will.

-Craig

dhmark wrote:
My only point to add is that when the single bolt works its way loose due to not tightening it enough, in my experience the universal always slipped to the front of the mast box, never coming out. Thus it was never a catastrophic problem on the few occasions it occurred. Per the prior post, I agree that the bolt does not seem to be the most vulnerable part of the universal. dhmark
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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1169
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I prefer single bolts for many applications as they allow for more range of adjustment in today's short mast track equipped boards, and I tend to position my uni farther back in the track than most people. The 2-bolt unis just don't let me put the uni where I want it to be in some boards.

Due diligence is key to preventing separation problems... inspect every connection and part before you go windsurfing.

Some unis are easier to tighten/loosen than others.

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