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Ice machine is ON!
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Iceratz



Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:31 pm    Post subject: Ice machine is ON! Reply with quote

Put away your water toys boys & girls....the ICE machine is ON for the next week!
I expect ice to form quickly over most of SE Mass regions. Hopefully some decent ice will be here by next weekend.
New Years eve could be the flashover night everywhere! Cool

NOAA:
Tonight Mostly clear, with a low around 17.
Monday Night low around 30.
New Year's Day Sunny, with a high near 39
Tuesday Night Mostly clear, with a low around 13.
Wednesday Mostly sunny, with a high near 26.
Wednesday Night Mostly clear, with a low around 9.
Thursday Mostly sunny, with a high near 30.
Thursday Night Mostly clear, with a low around 16.
Friday Mostly sunny, with a high near 34.
Friday Night Partly cloudy, with a low around 20.
Saturday Sunny, with a high near 34.
Saturday Night Partly cloudy, with a low around 22.
Sunday Mostly sunny, with a high near 36.
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Iceratz



Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Sun Dec 30, 2012 9:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, Lake Winnecunnet in Norton had 3/4" skim ice Saturday before the 10" snow dump. But its possible this site wets out quickly and becomes sailable.
I am more hopeful for new ice on other sites with temperature outlook.
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angulo



Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Mon Dec 31, 2012 7:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

don't you wait til its totally 100% guaranteed thick frozen before you start thinking about it ? you're talking about a 3/4" skim, sounds sketchy.

I think I'd like to get out there one of these days on the ice with you guys, but I need a 3-4 foot skim before i start feeling comfortable.

Please advise ?
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swmckay



Joined: 16 Jun 2008
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 7:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

angulo wrote:
don't you wait til its totally 100% guaranteed thick frozen before you start thinking about it ? you're talking about a 3/4" skim, sounds sketchy.

I think I'd like to get out there one of these days on the ice with you guys, but I need a 3-4 foot skim before i start feeling comfortable.

Please advise ?

I think he's saying that 3/4" skim plus snow means, we have to wait
for that snow to be melted AND for there to be additional thickness.
The 3/4" was just enough to hold the snow, which screws up the surface
for ice sports.

Really, you can skate safely on 4" if you know where the thin spots
are. I usually wait for 5-6". 6" of ice is thick enough to hold a car.
Ice floating on incompressible water is ridiculously strong; 1-2 feet
of ice is enough to build a house on. A good rule of thumb in unfamiliar
locations is, wait until you see the ice fisherman.
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Iceratz



Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Josh and others,
Sorry if I jumped the gun with the report! Your right, 3/4" is out of the question for ice sailing!
Let me add my expertise to some degree here:
When lakes have skimmed over, 3/4" or so, and we have forecast temperatures of well below freezing for the following 5-6 days, its very likely that ice will grow 1/2"- 1" per night, making safe ice in a few days time of over 4" of clear "BLACK ICE", which is the strongest possible type.
2.25" is iceboat min. acceptable thickness for 'pure virgin black ice', which has never seen the likes of temperatures above 32 deg.

When the snow falls on ice, those "safe" black ice numbers are not possible to consider. Snow, melted snow, refrozen wetted snow, all becomes WHITE ICE eventually. Snow insulates the ice and wreaks havoc with the structrual intergrity. That ice needs to be at least 6" and can't be sailed in temps over 40 deg.

All ice goes through changes hourly, daily, and weekly with storm precipitation either rain or snow. Ice will get a layered structure that needs very carefull analysis to determine just how safe it is. There are 100's of examples for ice description and just not possible to list here.
But suffice to say, thicker ice is usually 'safer', but not nessesarily better!

What the MOST important number to study in ice is what we call the BASE ice thickness. This is the bottom layer which is technically new black ice growth, as ice forms from the top down. I will chop a hole, pull out a chunk and carefully measure this base ice. The white ice junk on the top layers really won't count much for ice saftey thickness.

This is my passion, to watch lakes develop, sail them in ideal conditions, and then watch them deteriorate through the winter ice sailing season.
Cool And this is my 29th consecutive season ahead and I am looking forward to it!

BTW, ice thickness required for driving a car on is a lot more than what smw stated. 12" black ice, 2-3ft white ice.

Yes Josh, you need to check this sport out! Maybe I could hook you up with a board.. you get a motorcycle helmet.
But the thing to remember with ice is, its never 100% guarantee.
As we faithfully and cautiously say: "There is always thin ice somewhere"

And never sail alone!

Here is without question the most comprehensive study on ice for what we do. I am pleased to have contributed several photos into the library.

Bob Dill's LAKE ICE website:

http://lakeice.squarespace.com/
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paulf.



Joined: 21 Mar 1996
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i;m not sure that follow the ice fishermen is the mantra. locally here in nh they usually put a truck and/or a couple of snowmobiles into the water each season.
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Iceratz



Joined: 16 Feb 2009
Posts: 329

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

paulf. wrote:
i;m not sure that follow the ice fishermen is the mantra. locally here in nh they usually put a truck and/or a couple of snowmobiles into the water each season.


Agreed!
And don't follow the likes of the snowmobilers either!
This past week in Rangely Maine, 1 confirmed perished, and yesterday 3 reported missing...helmets found.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1930
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff, this might be a dumb question but I always wondered about wearing a drysuit when ice sailing for a last bit of safety. I did a few Freeskate sessions in the frigid winter of 1987-88 and wore my drysuit only to keep the cold out and add some padding when I fell off, which I did more than I enjoyed. Only after did it strike me that falling through in a snow suit would make for the worst dunking and extrication I could imagine.
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angulo



Joined: 18 May 2011
Posts: 170

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

iceratz, I'd like to give it a go sometime if you'd be so accommodating as to lend me a board. I'm assuming a smaller sail comparable to being on the ocean is the way to go?

I have a new son being born tomorrow , if he doesn't decide to come today,so maybe towards the end of Jan. if conditions are there, I'll track you down.

Aloha
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1064
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Angulo on ice? That ice windsurfing speed record is in serious danger.
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