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Gun Nuts
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1344
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpbassking wrote:
A gun safe which the kid did not have access to would have prevented this horrible tragedy.

Yep, probably so, which brings me to this very dark thought.

If he didn't kill his mom, could you just imagine the hell she'd be experiencing by both her own sorrow, and by the hate of the public blaming her for showing her son how to shoot?
He probably did her a favor by killing her first.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1364

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jp,

Good point, and if he didn't have access to his mom's guns, but was still committed to "going out" in a big way, don't you think he could have come up with another plan?

I can come up with a few sick ways of accomplishing the same thing without access to guns in my home.

Hard to know, he may have just given up on the idea and moved on if guns weren't readily available, but I doubt it. I am not suggesting that you should not lock up your guns as locking them is the best way to prevent accidents, but in this situation, I believe that the kid would have found another way.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4676

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Boy, the specious reasoning power of the right is out in force. From chickenhawk Mike we get bragadacio about how tough he is, and how he hopes the bad guy is also tough so it is a good kill when he shoots him. NW wrings his hands and argues that if we can't stop all of the killing there's no point in trying at all. And Techno's response to the culture of violence in the United States is to hire armed guards at schools when we are laying off teachers. Let's double down on violence in one of the most violent countries in the world. This is what counts for powerful reasoning?

You are all ignoring the possible, and the need for reform that makes it more difficult for the mentally unhinged to get their hands on guns, particularly rapid fire weapons. I would recommend to you the documentary on Colin Goddard, shot 4 times at Virginia Tech. http://www.bridgeport.edu/newsEvents/newsDetails.aspx?Channel=%2FChannels%2FSite+Wide+Content&WorkflowItemID=8f76fe77-e7d6-4547-8600-96b18fe9c141 Folks, especially Mike, you don't know what you are talking about--but Colin does. He documents the ease with which anyone can buy a gun without a background check or even an identification at gun shows throughout this country. Any check for mental issues would have identified the Virginia Tech shooter, instantly--yet he was able to buy guns legally. Many of them, and perpetrate an even larger slaughter of the innocent. Yet Republicans killed the legislative response to tightening the gun show loophole. (See http://lautenberg.senate.gov/newsroom/record.cfm?id=311723) There is concrete legislation, such as H. R. 308 which targets large capacity ammunition--an approach favored by almost everyone in law enforcement.

I will make a prediction to you overreaching conservatives. If you don't join the conversation, that President that can't lead but somehow got reelected and worked through a health care bill is going to roll you.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3334
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, techno, maybe he could have fed the kids some really bad seafood.
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2299
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
jp,

Good point, and if he didn't have access to his mom's guns, but was still committed to "going out" in a big way, don't you think he could have come up with another plan?

I can come up with a few sick ways of accomplishing the same thing without access to guns in my home.

Hard to know, he may have just given up on the idea and moved on if guns weren't readily available, but I doubt it. I am not suggesting that you should not lock up your guns as locking them is the best way to prevent accidents, but in this situation, I believe that the kid would have found another way.


Hard to say techno, this kids act of twisted revenge defies any rational explanation.

By the way for those of you who don't know you can buy pieces of an AR15 and assemble them rather than purchase the entire rifle however purchase of the upper receiver still requires a back ground investigation, at least in CA.

_________________
{JP:}====****
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13315

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dperzinski wrote:
But if we can stop even some of these events with legislation, isnít it worth our effort.

Not if it throws out the Constitution with the bathwater. Our Constitution, once past the basic necessities like taxation and armies, focuses on limiting, not on expanding, the federal government's power. Even in the face of unanticipated circumstances like the internet and like Bushmasters in schools, our nation still has to tilt the individual safety vs individual freedom scales towards the latter. That AR-15 replica is essentially a long-barreled (semi-automatic) pistol, of little "advantage" over his Glock at that range except for its larger magazine.

One competent shot from a simple pocket-sized hammerless .22 revolver could have put Lanza and his arsenal down in an instant.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1364

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are lots of things that can be done that will make it a little more difficult to buy/steal weapons, but it simply isn't possible to make a meaningful difference. Some of this has to be done to appease the uproar, but the impact will be inconsequential, in my opinion.

I went on line to look for guns for sale and in 5 seconds found a site much like Craig's List where individuals can buy and sell guns without background checks. Any newspaper you can do the same. Stopping the gun shows from selling without a background check could help, but unless there is a way to control ALL gun sales, little will change. At gun shows, there is a lot of selling, buying & trading in the aisles that has nothing to do with the registered dealers. And if it's too hard to buy them, then they will steal them.

I wonder how many of those that have perpetrated the mass killings in recent years would have passed a background check, assuming they were old enough to go through the system? Most I would guess. I say this because I don't believe the government is capable of developing/managing a system that can check all medical/mental records of everyone in the US. There are probably more mentally ill people in this country that are NOT in the system than are in the system. Is everyone with depression in the system?

I don't like the idea of armed guards in the schools either, but once a nut case is armed and committed to doing harm, what other solution is there? Of course the reality is that 99.9999% of those armed guards will be bored to death and will never be confronted with a shooter. Bottom line, I don't think armed guards in schools are necessary, just feel good measures for some.

Folks need to deal with realities & logic, not emotions.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13315

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Providing security was/is an expensive proposition and we didn't cover everything.

A retired cop has been pushing on a national basis for a decade to get more schools involved in his program to match schools with retired cops willing to guard schools on the cheap or even on a volunteer basis. The cops have the skills, experience, restraint, and other important qualifications to do the job well and safely.

OTOH, how many schools are there in just the U.S. ... a hundred thousand? How many have been shot up?

I'll bet self- and parent-induced obesity kills far more Americans than guns, and obesity starts at these kids' age. Conceptually, Twinkies are probably more dangerous than guns.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 4676

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reality--300 million guns in America. Reality--the NRA is devoted to protecting gun manufacturers and resellers, not the Constitution. Unreality--Isobars idea of effective regulation is on Twinkies, not on guns.

Still waiting for some effective logic or positions. Techno--shouldn't we limit gun reselling and require background checks?
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3334
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I heard a cop say that every potential gun owner should go through a training similar to what cops go through, including tests, and background tests. I like that idea, seems reasonable, why not err on the side of safety?
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