myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Pipe dream? Obamacare
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 199, 200, 201  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1919
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:31 pm    Post subject: Pipe dream? Obamacare Reply with quote

I hope this is true, and I hope it's gets seriously modified, as it stands, there is no way this country could afford this.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Boehner: Obamacare on table for 'fiscal cliff' talks, President, Congressional leaders search for common ground to tame national debt
Author: By: CNN's Dana Davidsen

(CNN) - As congressional leaders and President Barack Obama search for common ground to tame the national debt as the weeks dwindle down to end of the year, House Speaker John Boehner said the Affordable Care Act, often referred to as Obamacare, must be included in deficit negotiations.
"We can't afford it, and we can't afford to leave it intact," Boehner wrote of Obama's signature healthcare initiative in the Cincinnati Enquirer. "That's why I've been clear that the law has to stay on the table as both parties discuss ways to solve our nation's massive debt challenge."
Though Republicans have continually pushed for a full repeal of the law, Obama's re-election marked the next step in its implementation. Each state is required to decide whether to set up its own health care exchange - where individuals and small businesses can purchase affordable health care, subsidizing insurance for low-income consumers - or choose to have the federal government manage the state's exchange.

In the editorial Boehner lauded Ohio Governor John Kasich's decision Friday refusing to set up a state-run exchange, the result being the federal government management of the state's health care exchange.
As states decide how to comply with the law, leaders from both parties are in the midst of contentious dealings on how to reduce the nation's debt and avoid the so-called fiscal cliff - a series of federal spending cuts and tax rates increases set to go into place at the beginning of next year if Washington lawmakers fail to reach a compromise. At the crux of deficit negotiations is revenue. Republicans want to generate revenue by closing loopholes and tax deductions while Democrats have favored raising tax rates on wealthier Americans.
Since former Republican nominee Mitt Romney's defeat and the Supreme Court upheld most of the health care initiative, Boehner said the GOP's "tactics" must change in their effort to repeal Obamacare. Boehner underscored the law's expense and pushed a dismantling of the law through congressional oversight.
"With President Obama and his party still in control of most of Washington, stopping Obamacare will require both bold state leadership and vigorous oversight by members of the House of Representatives," he wrote.
Shortly after the election, however, Boehner told ABC he would not make repealing the law his mission saying Obamacare was the "law of the land." Boehner later walked back the comment tweeting the GOP's goal remains a full repeal of the law.

http://www.clickorlando.com/news/politics/Boehner-Obamacare-on-table-for-fiscal-cliff-talks/-/1637100/17513308/-/format/rss_2.0/-/aigsr7z/-/index.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
slinky



Joined: 24 Aug 2007
Posts: 433
Location: Old Saybrook Ct.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This healthcare question isd a complex one for sure.

Anericans spend 2 trillion dollars a year on "health" care, and the numbers are steadily increasing at an allarming rate. No one can afford the system we already have, Obama care or not.

This adds up to $6,700 per year for each man woman and child in our country.

The average family of four spends well over $10,000 per year on health insurance, an amount that would easily pay a mortgage on a nice home

Degenerative diseases are running rampant, and ever increasing year by year, Americans are getting sicker and sicker the more we spend.

The only diseases conventional allopathic medicine has a cure for are bacterial infections. Everything else is managing symptoms of disease.

Our entire "healthcare" system is a total failure at keeping us healthy in my opinion. Trauma care is excellent however. If I were injured in a car crash I would want to go to an emergency room.

I used to think Doctors knew everything there is to know about staying healthy. Boy was I ever wrong. Most Doctors have never even taken a course in nutrition! Don't believe me? Ask your MD how many hours he spent studying this in med school. Everything is all about treating symptoms of diseases with patent medicine, i.e. pharmaceuticals.

Dwight Eisenhower spoke of and warned us of the Millitary-Industrial complex. We need to update this to the Medical-Millitary- Industrial Complex.

One out of every seven dollars we spend is on a system that does very little if anything to promote health. It even creates disease! Its called iatrogenic disease, a disease state caused by doctors ,their drugs,and treatment methods i.e radiation, etc.

What does Obamacare do about any of this? Not much, but I hope something.

I had a neighbor who was an artist. He lived off a reverse mortgage most of his life, could not support himself on sales of his paintings. Never had a job, never paid into social security or medicare, never had fire insurance on his home or health insurance. When his health finally gave out over a period of ten years, you and I picked up the tab! He was a staunch "consertive" who consistantly voted against the thing that prolonged his life!

I guess maybe there should be a law requiring one to carry health insurance. You have to have car insurance to drive. Sooner or later you will likely need it.

Cheers!

Paul
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Runaway health costs are hurting Americans
Obamacare, first proposed by the very conservative Heritage Foundation.
Withdrawn after they got a huge check from ins lobbyists.
proposed again by two GOP congressmen in the Bush years.
GOP got their big check and pressured the two GOP guys to vote against their own legislation.
Best government money can buy right before your eyes.
Romney sees the value in this conservative program and implements it in his state. 87% of doctors in that state think it is OK.
Obama supports it also and gives finger to lobbyist check.
GOP makes stopping health reform of any kind the center of their world, as a flood of lobbyist checks rain down on them.
The problem is simple. Those huge costs contain huge profits.
As long as there is a lobbyist waving a check there will never be a GOP solution to a problem that is burying the American people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Imagine how huge the cost has been to write all those checks to buy the GOP leadership. And to purchase Limbaugh, Savage, Murdoch et al.
They had to squeeze hundreds of millions more dollars out of Americans to pay all that corruption, but they feel good about it since they hear cheering from the people they are screwing out of all that money.
By the way, I don't support or opposes Obamacare but I do support health reform and really would like to see fellow conservatives take a long hard look at who is manipulating them.
Until the right sees the screwing we are getting from the health care industry and fake press, we will continue our slow downward slide.
Murdoch owner of Fox deserves a special mention. When you watch Fox ask yourself if this Euro guy who can barely stay out of jail is a hero of the American people, cashing his checks and opposing Obamacare out of his love for fifty three percent of the American people.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14632

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slinky wrote:

1. Degenerative diseases are running rampant, and ever increasing year by year, Americans are getting sicker and sicker the more we spend.

2. Everything else is managing symptoms of disease.

3. Our entire "healthcare" system is a total failure at keeping us healthy in my opinion. Trauma care is excellent however. If I were injured in a car crash I would want to go to an emergency room.

4. I used to think Doctors knew everything there is to know about staying healthy.

5. Most Doctors have never even taken a course in nutrition! Everything is all about treating symptoms of diseases with patent medicine, i.e. pharmaceuticals.

6. One out of every seven dollars we spend is on a system that does very little if anything to promote health. It even creates disease! Its called iatrogenic disease, a disease state caused by doctors ,their drugs,and treatment methods i.e radiation, etc.

7. What does Obamacare do about any of this? Not much, but I hope something.

8. I had a neighbor … When his health finally gave out over a period of ten years, you and I picked up the tab! He was a staunch "consertive" who consistantly voted against the thing that prolonged his life!

9. I guess maybe there should be a law requiring one to carry health insurance. You have to have car insurance to drive.

What the hell is this excellent, big-picture, impersonal, rational summary of sound facts and opinions (plus a comparison of apples to crescent wrenches I'll get to) doing here in the Porta-Potty? Don'tcha know Obamacare's supporters post only about imaginary racism (and insults) and third-decimal minutia? Are you trying to introduce sanity and logic to this cesspool?

1. Americans are getting sicker for one blindingly obvious and incredibly dangerous reason: voluntary, self-induced obesity. That lard in their bellies causes most of our fatal diseases and even more illness and expense before it kills them. Hundreds of them have physiological medical causes of their obesity; the other 150 million just choose to eat too much $#!+ and sit on their asses too much.

Some examples of obesity's economic impact (from April, at 34% obesity; the rate is expected to top 50% very soon):

* $190 billion in annual medical costs due to obesity, double earlier estimates.
* $1,850 more per year in medical costs for an overweight person than for someone of healthy weight, among employees at the Mayo Clinic and their adult dependents. $3,086 more per year in medical costs for a Mayo worker with a body mass index (BMI) of 35 to 40.
* $5,530 more per year in medical costs for a Mayo worker with a BMI above 40. By comparison, smokers' medical costs were only $1,274 a year higher than nonsmokers', who generally die earlier.
* $5 billion annually for additional jet fuel needed to fly heavier Americans, compared to fuel needed at 1960 weights.
* $4 billion annually for additional gasoline as cars carry heavier passengers.
* $1,026: annual cost of absenteeism per very obese male worker (BMI > 40). $1,262: Annual cost of absenteeism per very obese female worker.
* $277: annual cost of absenteeism per mildly obese (BMI 25 to 29.9) male worker.
* $407: annual cost of absenteeism per mildly obese female worker.
* $1,056: cost of a "bariatric chair," able to hold 500 pounds.
* $1,049: cost of a bariatric toilet rated at 700 pounds.
Source: Reuters reporting (Reporting by Sharon Begley)
(I wonder whether this includes all the fat-caused cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. I also wonder how many people realize that the trans fats in Twinkies harm many people more than its sugar content.)

2. Generally and practically speaking, cops and courts treat the symptoms and aftermath of crime and doctors treat existing disease. i.e., Most people call the police and their doctors only after the crime or disease has struck, and those cases take priority over potential crime or disease. My very obese in-laws lived primarily on candy, meat, potatoes, and butter, but their doctor said “You’re just fine” right up until that diet crippled them with terminal illnesses. The last time I called the police after looking down the barrel of a gun, they had only one question: “Are you still at gunpoint?”

“No”.
“Then hang up. We have 30 calls right now from people whose lives are at grave risk as we speak.”

I now have my own concealed carry permit and spend hundreds of hours each year researching my own medical issues. Relying on our swamped judicial and medical systems will negatively impact most people’s lives (the latter took 16 years off my expected life span.) Anybody who doesn’t know more than many doctors about their health is likely to pay a big price.

3. You’d better hope that ER isn’t swamped with idiots with colds and boo-boos; triage is far from perfect. I was tentatively given < 1 week to live after my last ambulance trip to an ER ... in the mid ‘90s.

4. Anybody who thinks that is a naive fool ... just as I was for about three years too long.

5. Nutrition, hell. I’ve proven many of my doctors ignorant of mainstream, peer-reviewed, life-affecting medical practice. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize just how ignorant one PCP was until he cost me those 16 years. Socialized medicine will drive American health care down to European and Canadian basement levels … and anybody who thinks that’s acceptable is getting their “facts” from the GDNYT or ignorant foreign buddies, not from peer-reviewed research.

6. Seven oncologists, including at least three radiation oncologists, told me to get radiation treatment. 300 peer-reviewed studies, condensed into nearly 200 pages of detailed notes, summarized into a dense page of eye-popping facts, convinced almost all of them that, in my case, they were wrong. That was their damned job, not mine. And that was just one example out of many just from one patient.

Multiply that by a couple of hundred million patients just in the U.S. alone.

7. My educated guess? It will hurt far more people than it helps. It isn’t even in effect yet, but companies across the nation are already firing tens of thousands of people and closing many businesses to escape its clutches.

8. I EARNED (and/or pay cash for) my government health care insurance, every cent of my VA disability payments is subtracted directly from my EARNED USAF pension, and my means-tested medical care has for decades been constrained (justifiably, IMO) because of my middle class income. But if RATIONAL insurance coverage cuts plus SIGNIFICANT government spending cuts mean greater cuts in my coverage, I will ... in fact I DID … vote for them for the benefit of the nation. People who chose never to pay into the system have no right to the same level of care as those who did pay into it. That’s Marxism, and it’s unsustainable by every historical and fiscal analysis including the CBO's.

9. There are the apple and the crescent wrench. Those concepts are virtually unrelated in multiple, independent planes, as shown in countless discussions and analyses since the Democrats brought that lame, invalid excuse up years ago.

Yet not one Ocare lover even read this far. Very few of them are willing to look past the lipstick their party has put on this pig. Heck, the Washington Post called O’Reilly a racist (what else?) just because he read government statistics regarding the number of votes cast for Obama by people on unearned entitlements.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2409

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
slinky wrote:

1. Degenerative diseases are running rampant, and ever increasing year by year, Americans are getting sicker and sicker the more we spend.

2. Everything else is managing symptoms of disease.

3. Our entire "healthcare" system is a total failure at keeping us healthy in my opinion. Trauma care is excellent however. If I were injured in a car crash I would want to go to an emergency room.

4. I used to think Doctors knew everything there is to know about staying healthy.

5. Most Doctors have never even taken a course in nutrition! Everything is all about treating symptoms of diseases with patent medicine, i.e. pharmaceuticals.

6. One out of every seven dollars we spend is on a system that does very little if anything to promote health. It even creates disease! Its called iatrogenic disease, a disease state caused by doctors ,their drugs,and treatment methods i.e radiation, etc.

7. What does Obamacare do about any of this? Not much, but I hope something.

8. I had a neighbor … When his health finally gave out over a period of ten years, you and I picked up the tab! He was a staunch "consertive" who consistantly voted against the thing that prolonged his life!

9. I guess maybe there should be a law requiring one to carry health insurance. You have to have car insurance to drive.

What the hell is this excellent, big-picture, impersonal, rational summary of sound facts and opinions (plus a comparison of apples to crescent wrenches I'll get to) doing here in the Porta-Potty? Don'tcha know Obamacare's supporters post only about imaginary racism (and insults) and third-decimal minutia? Are you trying to introduce sanity and logic to this cesspool?

1. Americans are getting sicker for one blindingly obvious and incredibly dangerous reason: voluntary, self-induced obesity. That lard in their bellies causes most of our fatal diseases and even more illness and expense before it kills them. Hundreds of them have physiological medical causes of their obesity; the other 150 million just choose to eat too much $#!+ and sit on their asses too much.

Some examples of obesity's economic impact (from April, at 34% obesity; the rate is expected to top 50% very soon):

* $190 billion in annual medical costs due to obesity, double earlier estimates.
* $1,850 more per year in medical costs for an overweight person than for someone of healthy weight, among employees at the Mayo Clinic and their adult dependents. $3,086 more per year in medical costs for a Mayo worker with a body mass index (BMI) of 35 to 40.
* $5,530 more per year in medical costs for a Mayo worker with a BMI above 40. By comparison, smokers' medical costs were only $1,274 a year higher than nonsmokers', who generally die earlier.
* $5 billion annually for additional jet fuel needed to fly heavier Americans, compared to fuel needed at 1960 weights.
* $4 billion annually for additional gasoline as cars carry heavier passengers.
* $1,026: annual cost of absenteeism per very obese male worker (BMI > 40). $1,262: Annual cost of absenteeism per very obese female worker.
* $277: annual cost of absenteeism per mildly obese (BMI 25 to 29.9) male worker.
* $407: annual cost of absenteeism per mildly obese female worker.
* $1,056: cost of a "bariatric chair," able to hold 500 pounds.
* $1,049: cost of a bariatric toilet rated at 700 pounds.
Source: Reuters reporting (Reporting by Sharon Begley)
(I wonder whether this includes all the fat-caused cancer, heart disease, diabetes, etc. I also wonder how many people realize that the trans fats in Twinkies harm many people more than its sugar content.)

2. Generally and practically speaking, cops and courts treat the symptoms and aftermath of crime and doctors treat existing disease. i.e., Most people call the police and their doctors only after the crime or disease has struck, and those cases take priority over potential crime or disease. My very obese in-laws lived primarily on candy, meat, potatoes, and butter, but their doctor said “You’re just fine” right up until that diet crippled them with terminal illnesses. The last time I called the police after looking down the barrel of a gun, they had only one question: “Are you still at gunpoint?”

“No”.
“Then hang up. We have 30 calls right now from people whose lives are at grave risk as we speak.”

I now have my own concealed carry permit and spend hundreds of hours each year researching my own medical issues. Relying on our swamped judicial and medical systems will negatively impact most people’s lives (the latter took 16 years off my expected life span.) Anybody who doesn’t know more than many doctors about their health is likely to pay a big price.

3. You’d better hope that ER isn’t swamped with idiots with colds and boo-boos; triage is far from perfect. I was tentatively given < 1 week to live after my last ambulance trip to an ER ... in the mid ‘90s.

4. Anybody who thinks that is a naive fool ... just as I was for about three years too long.

5. Nutrition, hell. I’ve proven many of my doctors ignorant of mainstream, peer-reviewed, life-affecting medical practice. Unfortunately, I didn’t realize just how ignorant one PCP was until he cost me those 16 years. Socialized medicine will drive American health care down to European and Canadian basement levels … and anybody who thinks that’s acceptable is getting their “facts” from the GDNYT or ignorant foreign buddies, not from peer-reviewed research.

6. Seven oncologists, including at least three radiation oncologists, told me to get radiation treatment. 300 peer-reviewed studies, condensed into nearly 200 pages of detailed notes, summarized into a dense page of eye-popping facts, convinced almost all of them that, in my case, they were wrong. That was their damned job, not mine. And that was just one example out of many just from one patient.

Multiply that by a couple of hundred million patients just in the U.S. alone.

7. My educated guess? It will hurt far more people than it helps. It isn’t even in effect yet, but companies across the nation are already firing tens of thousands of people and closing many businesses to escape its clutches.

8. I EARNED (and/or pay cash for) my government health care insurance, every cent of my VA disability payments is subtracted directly from my EARNED USAF pension, and my means-tested medical care has for decades been constrained (justifiably, IMO) because of my middle class income. But if RATIONAL insurance coverage cuts plus SIGNIFICANT government spending cuts mean greater cuts in my coverage, I will ... in fact I DID … vote for them for the benefit of the nation. People who chose never to pay into the system have no right to the same level of care as those who did pay into it. That’s Marxism, and it’s unsustainable by every historical and fiscal analysis including the CBO's.

9. There are the apple and the crescent wrench. Those concepts are virtually unrelated in multiple, independent planes, as shown in countless discussions and analyses since the Democrats brought that lame, invalid excuse up years ago.

Yet not one Ocare lover even read this far. Very few of them are willing to look past the lipstick their party has put on this pig. Heck, the Washington Post called O’Reilly a racist (what else?) just because he read government statistics regarding the number of votes cast for Obama by people on unearned entitlements.
Do you have any suggestions for cooking a turkey?
_________________
/w\
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6034

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those of us that have health insurance, this time of the year is when we make our health insurance selections for 2013. If one was to believe the Republican talking points, the ACA is driving up the costs for healthcare insurance for everyone. So, for reasons that haven't been supported, Republicans have been promoting the repeal of the ACA as a way to dodge an system that we can't afford. Of course, they're not offering anything to replace it, so one is led to believe that we will just go back to the way things were before passage of the ACA. Somehow Republicans think that having more than 40 million folks with absolutely no health insurance coverage is a more desirable outcome. Moreover, they have no problem at all with insurance companies denying health insurance coverage for those unfortunate enough to have a preexisting health condition. I could go on and on, but I think most thoughtful folks will get the picture.

Now what is the truth? While I can't even come close to answering that question fully, I thought I would add some reality to give our Republican friends here something to think about. I'm a plan participant in an employee-based health plan that is certified to participate in the Early Retirement Reinsurance Program (ERRP). The following is quoted from my Open Enrollment documentation. "The ERRP is a federal program established as part of healthcare reform, under the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act of 2010. Under this program, the federal government reimburses a plan sponsor of an employment-based health plan for some of the costs of the health care benefits paid on behalf of, or by, early retirees participating in the employment-based plan. For retirees and dependents who are not eligible for Medicare, contribution rates for 2013 were reduced by 17%."

Not a bad outcome for me, but it gets even better. For 2013 my contribution rate has been reduced by 36% overall (17% + 19%). I have to gather that United Healthcare has benefited from reduced healthcare costs to be able offer me a 19% reduction from 2012 rates, otherwise they wouldn't have offered the savings. As I've mentioned in the past, my coverage is a high deductible plan that includes an Health Savings Account (HSA). In this type of plan, I take a lot of financial responsibility for my healthcare, but I also get to write off the money that I contribute to my HSA from my taxable income, so I save even further over and above the 36% saving noted above.

Now, is the ACA as terrible as those on the right claim? Although other folks may not be experiencing the same kind of saving that I have, I think that it's safe to say that the passage of the ACA is having a positive impact for many Americans like myself. Of course, I don't think that the piece of reality I've offered here is going to change the minds of our friends on the right here. It is highly likely that they will probably continue to blindly adhere to what they hear from Republican politicians, Fox News, and right wing talk radio and internet sources.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 6034

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading isobars' rant above about fat people, it's ironic that his wife is "morbidly obese". His words not mine.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5581

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chandler--the alternative would be to still sleep with Mike Fick.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2768

PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 5:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
After reading isobars' rant above about fat people, it's ironic that his wife is "morbidly obese". His words not mine.

And his wife's husband is morbidly nuts.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Politics, Off-Topic, Opinions All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 199, 200, 201  Next
Page 1 of 201

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group