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best sails for nolimitz original rdm
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14237

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their Surflite is still my first choice in the 3.2 size, even though its last design tweak was in 2002. My 2012 3.2 is a Surflite, and my 2012 3.7 features some Surflite features; ditto for 2013. All I added to the 2012 Surflite was upgraded battens. My last 10-hour day was on my 3.7 2002 Surflite last season, and I'm sure I had a couple of more hours left in me when the sky went black, despite the wind averaging in the upper 30s (mph) most of the day. Smooth as silicone on Teflon, as light as a Featherlite, and no gusts. Top that for ~$75 (swap meet prices for a pristine 2002 Surflite)!
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wsurfn1426



Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Late to the discussion:

Ezzy bend curve was modeled after the Fiberspar SDM Wave mast that was prevalent in its (Ezzy RDM) inception. Originally made by Powerex (Black), then by NoLimitz (Grey). The source was a video of David Ezzy a year or two ago talking to a group in England when he was giving a rigging clinic.

I do not know the bend curve of the NL original, it is in the CC range, but more flex top than Ezzy or Powerex. Also, it is touch softer.

The Sumo is super stiff due to higher modulus carbon used. It is no surprise that you can make a NL Original more stifftop by putting on a stiffer Sumo top.

Somebody had a spreadsheet of their experience with mix/match of NL masts on this forum. You may find it on a search.


Fortunately, there is more of a consensus on what mast bends are for most brands. The Unifiber Link looks pretty good to me. The Peterman, Boards, and Surf data has been a big source for a while now. Unfortunately, bend is only part of the equation.

Too stiff a mast, even of the correct bend, can make a sail feel dead.

I sail Severne S1s (2009-2010s). I have a Naish 2008 400 85 that is OK, but tried a 2006 Naish 430 100 that was way too stiff. Both were made by Powerex, not the latest Naish mast manufacturer that is rumored to be more flextop.

A 2009 Gaastra 430 100 works well for my sails, and a 2010 Severne Redline 400 is the bomb. My S1 sails breathe so much better with these masts.

I have a friend that has Ezzy RDM Masts and sails them with NP Fireflys and Vandal Reverb. Those sails are on opposite ends of the spectrum. He rips. So, unless you are a gear nerd, I would not sweat it too much. If you have the opportunity to try one first, I would jump on that opportunity though.

Coachg, if you want to trade your Severne for a Naish, just let me know...


Last edited by wsurfn1426 on Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:25 pm; edited 3 times in total
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KevinDo



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 419
Location: Cabrillo Inside

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 8:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do Severnes rig well on Ezzy RDMs? (NL ones). Thinking about getting a gator and NCX
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wsurfn1426



Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KevinDo:

I had a 2006 7.5m2 Severne Gator. It was a wonderful freeride sail that I really liked. I tried to rig it on an Ezzy 460 RDM and a NL Sumo 460 RDM. Never worked very well. Never as good as a simple PWX 460 SDM.

I believe the reason was the sail was designed for a SDM. For sails greater than 6.5, many may be designed for SDM. RDMs bend different, and behave different, especially in larger sizes. Plus, that was 2006. The only one making large sails to rig on RDMs was Ezzy at the time (I think Goya came out in 2007), I believe.

For smaller sails, RDM is the definitely the best way to go, and almost all are designed for RDM now. Despite what was commonly preached before, not all RDMs are the same. Thus, the current discussion topic.

I do know that Phil Richards and Danielle Lucas use an Ezzy RDM 370 in their small Severne S1's based on their Boards Magazine technique videos. So for smaller sizes it may be fine. I could never get a 430 or even a 400 Ezzy to look right in mine.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3061
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsurfn1426 wrote:
Late to the discussion:

Ezzy bend curve was modeled after the Fiberspar SDM Wave mast that was prevalent in its (Ezzy RDM) inception. Originally made by Powerex (Black), then by NoLimitz (Grey). The source was a video of David Ezzy a year or two ago talking to a group in England when he was giving a rigging clinic.

I do not know the bend curve of the NL original, it is in the CC range, but more flex top than Ezzy or Powerex. Also, it is touch softer.



..


Since Ezzy initally were made by Powerex, and Powerex made a RDM, it doesn't make any sense that Ezzys were modeled after a SDM by Fiberspar, it would make sense the Powerex curve, stranger things happen however.

THE N/L curve is posted on their site and on the 1st page here, unless you mean way back original VS the mast made now , they call original.

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wsurfn1426



Joined: 20 Mar 2004
Posts: 176

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2:

Dave Ezzy stated that his mast bend is basically based off a 1992 Fiberspar Tidal Wave. I do not know if the Tidal wave referenced was a SDM or RDM at that time.

Dave discusses this about 4:50 minutes into this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eesIEaEG71c

I think the PWX and Ezzy RDMs are very similar if not the same. I think Peterman had one PWX RDM measurement. Agreed, NL gives you all the data for their masts on their site.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3061
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsurfn1426 wrote:
U2:

Dave Ezzy stated that his mast bend is basically based off a 1992 Fiberspar Tidal Wave. I do not know if the Tidal wave referenced was a SDM or RDM at that time.

Dave discusses this about 4:50 minutes into this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eesIEaEG71c

I think the PWX and Ezzy RDMs are very similar if not the same. I think Peterman had one PWX RDM measurement. Agreed, NL gives you all the data for their masts on their site.


THANKS FOR THAT LINK. I have not seen it, and am very surprised. Fiberspar is one of the companies that doesn't like too disclose its curve, the RDM that I had from them was 12 , this a 430RDM from 2005. The current Ezzy curves I have are stiffer than this, but not far off. The #s came from David.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14237

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
Fiberspar is one of the companies that doesn't like too disclose its curve

Isn't that like GM offering a new vehicle in a box, demanding $30,000 while refusing to reveal anything about it but its length? Given some people's obsession with mast numbers, why would anyone ever buy a Feeblespar or any other brand that hides them? I would laugh right there if a source tried to sell me ANY product I can imagine, from a can of beans to radiation treatment, without any specs. It makes no sense.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3061
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
hodad.andy wrote:


U2U2- you're correct in that the SUMO and Original do both have similar numbers, but when you rig one right after the other, you'll notice that it seems to take more downhaul tension to get the sumo to bend. It takes one hand to downhaul with an Original, while it takes two hands to downhaul the Sumo, even though the sail will look exactly the same after you get it to the right spot. So, they bend at the same places, it just seems to take more "uumph" to get the Sumo there.

So when you then go ahead and mix and match, the Original section will bend before the Sumo section.


Hope that makes sense? Question Laughing


it does make sense what you said, but my mind says it shouldn't work that way, based on the numbers given for the N/L curves. I can't contradict what you and others have experienced first hand. I do see we agree on the sails that the N/L mast should work in OR NOT WORK IN

NoLimitz does have awesome customer service and only a phone call away


I have done some more digging around on the N/L curves between the original and Sumo series.

It puzzled me that that the Sumo while softer in some sizes on paper can be stiffer.
and from my consulting expert :

Mast feel is dictated BY:
overall stiffness
the ratios between the mid 1/4 & 3/4 bends
carbon content

and this bit which is what the Sumo must have

the carbon orientation. More zero axis fibers= better reflex.

I still am puzzled then why the SUMO bottom and top aren't used TOGETHER, in sails like Gaastras ? maybe the original is stiffer on the bottom than the Sumo bottom.... probably answered my own puzzlement.

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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3061
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wsurfn1426 wrote:
KevinDo:

I had a 2006 7.5m2 Severne Gator. It was a wonderful freeride sail that I really liked. I tried to rig it on an Ezzy 460 RDM and a NL Sumo 460 RDM. Never worked very well. Never as good as a simple PWX 460 SDM.

I believe the reason was the sail was designed for a SDM. For sails greater than 6.5, many may be designed for SDM. RDMs bend different, and behave different, especially in larger sizes. Plus, that was 2006. The only one making large sails to rig on RDMs was Ezzy at the time (I think Goya came out in 2007), I believe.

For smaller sails, RDM is the definitely the best way to go, and almost all are designed for RDM now. Despite what was commonly preached before, not all RDMs are the same. Thus, the current discussion topic.

I do know that Phil Richards and Danielle Lucas use an Ezzy RDM 370 in their small Severne S1's based on their Boards Magazine technique videos. So for smaller sizes it may be fine. I could never get a 430 or even a 400 Ezzy to look right in mine.


from your entries you have a lot of knowledge in this area, but I don't see an answer to the original question

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