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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5878

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joethewindsurfa's photo of the F2 pin coincides with my memory of what it should look like, but I would take mark's earlier suggestion of rotating the universal base 90 degrees after inserting it. That puts the flat spots in the pin fore and aft in positional alignment, and then it might engage the diameters of the slider mechanism in the mast track to hold the universal in place. However, you should be aware that the universal could rotate in use, because it may not be held in the final position while on the water. The universal is a crucial attachment point that is designed to rotate in different ways, and it's possible that it could rotate in use on the water. If it's held firmly attached (like using the screw-on method that the Chinook design uses), or around the full diameter of the pin (like the pin in joethewindsufa's photo), the retention is guaranteed. You should be aware that the basic slider and pin retention system is still the rule today in non screw-on designs. That applies to both the universal attachment to the board and also the universal attachment to the mast extension (the Euro-pin design).
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UrbanFisher



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again guys!!

Everyone is pretty much right on. Bottom line...it just is the wrong U joint for that board. Upon looking at it much closer and using an actual measuring tool (my micrometer) it appears the pin on the U joint is too short! It bottoms out at the orangish plastic parts. So no matter how much I push, unless I can smush the plastic around the pin, it's about 3/16" short of the collar on the pin meeting the locking slider mechanism on the mast track!

At least I know why it wouldnt work and now know I can retro fit it to work with a newer u joint that can actually just be ordered and delivered (versus Craig's list or garage hunting for who knows how long to find one out dated peice of an old windsurfer!). But I do think I have a simple and cheap solution that should work.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1271
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A new U-joint is going to cost you about $60, almost doubling your
cost.

Just warning you,

-Craig

UrbanFisher wrote:
Thanks again guys!!

Everyone is pretty much right on. Bottom line...it just is the wrong U joint for that board. Upon looking at it much closer and using an actual measuring tool (my micrometer) it appears the pin on the U joint is too short! It bottoms out at the orangish plastic parts. So no matter how much I push, unless I can smush the plastic around the pin, it's about 3/16" short of the collar on the pin meeting the locking slider mechanism on the mast track!

At least I know why it wouldnt work and now know I can retro fit it to work with a newer u joint that can actually just be ordered and delivered (versus Craig's list or garage hunting for who knows how long to find one out dated peice of an old windsurfer!). But I do think I have a simple and cheap solution that should work.
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UrbanFisher



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
A new U-joint is going to cost you about $60, almost doubling your
cost.

Just warning you,

-Craig


LOL...yeah I priced them and understand. That's why it was great to start so cheap. If I spent say $300 on that kit I would be pretty pissed right now. But since I only spent $75 I have some room to expand on it. And at least if I buy the new u joint, I should be able to carry it over to my future new board! Smile
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mark



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 112

PostPosted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UrbanFisher,

The procedure I described earlier was for the Mistral fitting which you have. The Mistral track has two wires similar to the F2 track but they are perpendicular to the track rather than parallel. The 2 flats allow the pin to drop into the hole. After rotating the orange part it locks to the track which prevents the pin from coming out. The F2 pin as shown in a previous post is placed into the hole and then the silver retaining wires are slid into place. Even if the post was long enough to position the groove even with the two wires the base would pop out as soon as it is rotated 90 degrees because the F2 track does not have a means for locking the orange part in place.

The recommendations to replace the universal is most probably the best long term solution and certainly the safest if you are sailing in an unprotected location. However you may be able to make the base work with the parts you have with a few modifications. I am not entirely sure it will work because I have not seen this part in 20 years but it may be worth giving it a try.

I also wanted to mention that the Mistral base has an 8 mm thread which is the same as most current models so you may not have to replace the whole mast base. Before proceeding I would make sure that the universal swivel is actually compatible with the tube that fits inside the mast. If it is not then you will need to replace the whole assembly.

From memory I think the 2 small set screws go into a groove in the pin which allows the orange part to rotate around the pin. If you remove them the orange part will slide off. At this point you may have several options.

1. If you can remove the grooved pin from the swivel you can replace it with a standard Chinook plate as shown in an earlier post. You also could remove the swivel and replace both. You could also fabricate you own plate and use an 8 mm bolt to secure it to the swivel.

2. If you can remove the grooved pin you may be able to replace it with the correct pin. I noticed that Isthmus Sailboards has some Bic pins that may fit. They are very helpful and if you call them with the hole measurements and depth of the silver wires they can probably advise.

3. This option may work with the existing parts. After removing the set screws and sliding off the lower part remove the orange part from the small silver part. Reinstall the silver part upside down without the orange part and replace the set screws. The flats would then be above and the lower round part will then be below the retaining wires. Not having the flats below the retaining wires would prevent the base from poping out. The elimination of the orange part would allow the pin to sit lower in the hole. I am not sure how far the metal goes into the plastic but you may have to cut off a bit if it hits the bottom of the track. You may also want to make a spacer to bring the diameter of the pin up to the same diameter of the hole to prevent it from rocking back and forth. You could use a stack of washers with about the same outside diameter as the hole and drill out the centers so they would slide over the pin.

4. If you can remove the grooved pin you may be able to bolt it through the hole using an 8 mm stainless bolt. You would have to remove the mast track and insert the bolt with a washer from the bottom. The swivel could then be attached to the bolt from the top. In any case if you remove the bolts from the swivel be sure you use a liquid thread locker upon reassembly.

If you post some pictures after you disassemble the parts we may be able to help you further.
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UrbanFisher



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark!!!,

Those are some wonderful ideas. The more I look at the existing U joint, the more I realize that I do have several options on making it work. I also agree with the fact that the existing pin has those flat sides. I see where if it turns while sailing the collar on the pin will hit the flat spots and the sail rig would pop right off. So in modifying it, I do not plan on even using that old pin.

A few proper sized screws, washers and nuts should fix it. I'm so glad you mentioned the set screws on the pin. They are small and I was wondering if they were allen type screws or just pins set in there. Now that I do know they are allen screws, I will remove them and then I should be able to remove that old pin from the plastic base part. Once I get the pin out and disassemble the lower part of that U joint, I should be able to fit some screws and washers to replicate the old pin. It looks like it should actually be a pretty easy (and very inexpensive) fix!

And I know this seems like a lot of work and trouble for an old outdated windsurfer, but I am ecstatic that I bought this thing!! As I stated, I am a DIY'er and love this kind of stuff. The mast base and the U joint were the first things I tried to assemble and already ran into problems. I'm sure once I get to the sail and boom, I'll run into more. But to me that is just fine. I paid $75.00 for this thing and I knew there would be issues. But it's like when I build my little boats, there comes a great pride when you take them out. Kinda like a guy that restores an old car. Is it new and with all the fancy new electronics?, no but knowing he took an old beat up ready-for-the-junkyard car and got it running and usable again, he has a lot of pride in that car that others may not see (they just see an old rusty POS). That's how I feel about my windsurfer. Not only am I determined to get this hodgepodge of windsurfing parts into a useable boat, I am learning a bunch as I do it. If I can fix and sail this one, maybe I can give some other old ready-for-the-trash windsurfers a new life! Smile Plus my 11 year old boy and I are taking it paddle boarding to the river this weekend. I figured it's a great way for me to get use to/practice it's stability while the kiddo will have a blast paddling it around. Believe me, I'll get my $75.00 use out of this thing!! Smile
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5878

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before you put a lot of time and effort into the universal assembly, like I suggested earlier, it's important to make sure the universal assembly and the mast extension are compatible and properly attach with good retention. The top of the universal assembly looks awfully strange, and I couldn't really discern much about the mast extension from the earlier photos in your original thread.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14308

PostPosted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get a double-bladed paddle. Sit on the board with your feet stretched out in front of you. Drag race some canoes/kayaks. Fry your abs in the process.
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joe_windsurfxxx



Joined: 29 Jun 2008
Posts: 64

PostPosted: Thu Sep 26, 2013 4:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hey urbanfisher
i would LOVE to have your Mistral mast base with mechanical joint
i pm'ed you

i wish to put Chinook type extension on my Equipe I LCS-XR

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