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NickB



Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 498
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac elegantly chose a topic name that lets them avoid the gloating if they so wish, and I think it's just as well. This is a place of rejoice, we don't need gray-faced men and their bad juju.

mac, thank you for you relentless pursuit of the truth and the good. and of course thanks also to the other usual suspects that dutifully have been fending off the feces!

much love!
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1650
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A gloat thread!
A freakin' gloat thread!
What is this high school?

Its November 7th 2012. This is what America, and the world, looks like today:

-Iran will go nuke
-China's growth will continue to eclipse ours
-Our boarders will continue to be wide open
-Taxes will increase for everyone across the board
-Obamacare will be further implemented to the chagrin of most of the Dr.'s
-Our economy will be as Jon Stewart said last night, "still in the same fucking place as 4 years ago".
-The takers (who won the election) will increase in numbers, as the number of makers will continue to decline.
-There now may be a carbon tax, just read that this morning
-We will be further dependent on foreign oil
-The stonewalling on Benghazi will continue
-The stonewalling on "Fast and Furious" will continue
-Al Qaeda will be further emboldened

Keep gloating kiddies
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW, everything will work itself out, trust the American people.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14050

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
.both candidates could hardly be considered evil. Most countries in the world would be blessed to have either candidate win.

So, hopefully, we move forward.

Neither man is evil, but I firmly believe we will see by midterm that Obama's policies are evil, and that they will drag our nation down even much farther than they already have. This victory reinforces his conviction in his clearly and often stated and demonstrated ideals -- redistributing rather than growing the economic pie, disdain for and circumvention of the Constitution and the law, Chicago politics, global appeasement and apology, big government, the nanny state, U.N. supremacy, unlimited deficit and debt, extreme partisanship and divisiveness, complete lack of transparency (once primarily a Republican flaw), hatred of capitalism and the financially successful, union worship, et.al. I hope to circumvent the few negative impacts his policies will have on me*, but younger, working families and small businesses who want to move up the economic ladder just got screwed. Obama's stated fiscal policies and goals assure a $20 trillion national debt by 2016, so all that stands between him and national bankruptcy may be a pragmatic and stubborn Republican House.

If Obama convincingly reverses most of these positions and our resulting slide, I'll gladly vote Democrat in my last presidential election four years from now. I don't give a hoot what party rules if it makes the nation and the world better.

* In case a couple of my safeguards may still be of use to many of you, here they are. I'm in the sweet spot way below the $250k (and already going lower) individual or small business adjusted income which will see big tax increases, yet above the $82k level which receives unearned welfare as an incentive to STAY below $82k (and to vote Democrat). I hope my investment paradigm shift will cushion the dramatic inflation even Krugman and Bernanke admit follows the Fedís artificial and temporary play-money inflation of the economy. I own my home, so I'll have a roof and bed. I donít own a small business, so Iím not laying off employees or shelving expansion plans as some already are today to get below high-taxation and onerous legislation employee thresholds**. VA oncologists admit the VAís mistreatment of one of my service-connected disabilities definitely cut my remaining life expectancy to about 6 years (it was 22 years until changes three years ago) and I have no kids, so my greatest long-term worry is my wife, not generations of butt-phuct dependents or long term dependency on Obamacare. That disability is expected to end my WSing within 5 years and my life within 7, so $15 gasoline may not be a big issue for me; arenít I lucky! And when that disability goes from moderate to complete within 5 years, at some point I may be able to persuade the VA to fund my disability payments rather than take them dollar for dollar out of my military pension. I've formally extended my IRA, so my beneficiaries will receive millions from even my meager $50k IRA; unfortunately, those millions will be in play money, and may thus buy little more than a nice bicycle ... tire.

** Tip to the many thousands of small businesses that must now fire some employees to get below 50: fire first those who voted for Obama, as they are the reason you must downsize.

BTW ... Jon Stewart is dead wrong. The economy will be far WORSE by 2016, according to dozens of national and global magnates and self-made billionaires.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW and Iso make my point. They don't bother to listen to other viewpoints, and respond--but choose invective and hate messages. Fortunately, their number shrinks, and as windoggie says, the voting machine kills fascists. (metaphorically--if you were paying attention in school.)
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3334

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The invective of angry white men like Iso was a big boost to Obama with the independents.
His crew acknowledged their assistance.
Thanks .
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This certainly isn't a college seminar, with nonsense like this posted:

Quote:
Its November 7th 2012. This is what America, and the world, looks like today:

-Iran will go nuke
-China's growth will continue to eclipse ours
-Our boarders will continue to be wide open
-Taxes will increase for everyone across the board
-Obamacare will be further implemented to the chagrin of most of the Dr.'s
-Our economy will be as Jon Stewart said last night, "still in the same fucking place as 4 years ago".
-The takers (who won the election) will increase in numbers, as the number of makers will continue to decline.
-There now may be a carbon tax, just read that this morning
-We will be further dependent on foreign oil
-The stonewalling on Benghazi will continue
-The stonewalling on "Fast and Furious" will continue
-Al Qaeda will be further emboldened


By the numbers:

1. Mitt proposed nothing different than Obama on Iran, and under Obama the US developed bunker busting capability that it didn't have under Bush,

2. I guess Fox doesn't carry news about the shrinking growth rate and corruption problems in China.

3. Obama actually cut taxes for the middle class--under the theory that less taxes for consumers would directly benefit the consumer economy. Will Republicans in the House send the economy over a cliff or negotiate? What happens when you put amateurs in charge? Doesn't work real well in high school.

4. Obamacare will not be dismantled, but will be modified to reflect further understanding. Intelligent and informed critiques are welcome.

5. The economy is growing, but NW is from the information free alternative universe. Most of the toxic loans--official Republican policy--have worked their way out of the system and construction is happening again, especially in California.

6. The patricians who got richer under the Bush tax cuts without doing anything about the declining manufacturing economy do not understand that they are the takers. So sad.

7. A carbon tax to pay for some of the military cost of making the entire world's oil economy safe makes sense. I would be very happy indeed if the carbon industry could not continue to transfer all of its externalities to the public sector.

8. Another alternative universe take--such is what happens when you only listen to Fox news. Factually wrong in virtually every respect.

9. Ditto, but what can we expect from a ditto head. The fact free universe.

10. A classified number of Al Queda have been killed under this administration--far more from the other guy who didn't think it mattered. It remains to be seen whether it will work.

Partial credit on one of ten. Back to high school indeed. Over to you knuckledragger.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1927

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
CB--From you, I feel a little chastened. My gloating is in reaction to the stream of lies and nastiness about Obama--and anyone to the left of Attila--from those named.

The most fun I had was tuning into Fox News once it was clear what had happened, and why. I shouldn't brag about my moments of schadenfreude, but I remain deeply flawed. The arrogant Fox guy attributed Romney's loss to the candidate, and his flip-flops--suggesting that a true conservative would have won. That and the constant whining from the two women side-kicks convinced me that Fox doesn't get it--the question now is does the Republican Party?

The Republicans ran a divisive campaign and Congress, hearkening back to the days of Ronald Reagan. It worked with white men--but failed with everyone else. They have failed to anticipate the shifting demographics in the Country--except in Arizona, where they are simply trying to stave it off until enough cranky old white people die. Mitt did better with cranky white men, conservatives, and evangelicals than Reagan. But the electorate has changed--despite efforts to prevent the new voters from voting.

Here in a nutshell is why Obama won, and why Hillary will win by a much larger margin in 2016 if the Republicans don't dump the wing nuts in the nearest trash bin:

1. The economy is recovering, albeit slowly, and even though the Re-thugs did their best to prevent the recovery and deny Obama a second term. Enough people understand that it was Republican policies that caused the damage; that much is clear from exit polls.

2. The Republicans, and particularly Romney, deeply offended Hispanics with their radical hatred of illegal immigrants. The legal Hispanic citizenry voted 71% for Obama--a dramatic change from Bush II.

3. Obama, despite the slanders of bard, mrgybe, and matty, is simply smarter than anyone that the Republicans could have put up. Their organization and ground game delivered, I believe, all of the swing states. As I have said, I have seen the same thing in governance--we have gone from the most incompetent president of the last 100 years to someone even smarter than Clinton.

4. Not to be outdone, Re-thugs doubled down on hatred of women's reproductive rights, pandering to evangelicals who never read the Federalist Paper's or Roe v. Wade. Thank god for a triumph for thinking and science. Women voted for Obama by a 10% margin, and the margin among younger women is even larger.

5. The cultural war is over, and the evangelicals lost. Gay marraige wins 4 for 4 state elections.

So let's recap. Republicans have held onto and even increased their support from angry white men--and in the process developed a hate-filled narrative that alienated everyone else. They showed, in retaining the House, that Republican redistricting can create enough safe seats for Tea Party members--but that at the State level pandering to the Tea Party lost them at least 2 Senatorial races.


It is fun to say "I told you so" sometimes. And, on this forum, it is fair game.

That said, I believe we need to be careful moving forward in general, This was a very close election and, quite possibly, could have gone the other direction. I think there is a lesson for all of us here. Not lecturing here...just offering a bit more of an explanation.

I agree that the "ground game" put forth by Obama supporters was a major reason that Obama won.

I have two houses. One in the mountains, and the other in a "cow town" in a valley where we work. My house is in a lower middle class working neighborhood. I spent election day in the yard working on some landscaping. During the day, I was visited by two Obama supporters who reminded me to vote.

My father-in-law, in an upper middle class neighborhood in the same town, received no Romney or Obama visitors.

This was no accident. The Obama rep told me they were targeting that area since it met their demographic.

Romney was, simply, outmanuevered.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1927

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
A gloat thread!
A freakin' gloat thread!
What is this high school?

Its November 7th 2012. This is what America, and the world, looks like today:

-Iran will go nuke
-China's growth will continue to eclipse ours
-Our boarders will continue to be wide open
-Taxes will increase for everyone across the board
-Obamacare will be further implemented to the chagrin of most of the Dr.'s
-Our economy will be as Jon Stewart said last night, "still in the same fucking place as 4 years ago".
-The takers (who won the election) will increase in numbers, as the number of makers will continue to decline.
-There now may be a carbon tax, just read that this morning
-We will be further dependent on foreign oil
-The stonewalling on Benghazi will continue
-The stonewalling on "Fast and Furious" will continue
-Al Qaeda will be further emboldened

Keep gloating kiddies



NW...Do you have any hard data on that? I am wondering why my circle of Doctor friends do not share that opinion.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3334

PostPosted: Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand Hawaii is the most democratic state.sure a lot of Democrats here in Maui. We are the most energy independent sate as a result and our pols intend to completely release us from the tyranny of foreign oil.
The Red states are at the other end of that game because their leadership is bought by Big Oil.
Oil production in the US declined under bush and is rising under Obama.
contrary to the Talk Radio drudge lie machine
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