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Cable Park / Hotel Negotiations (II )
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mikephillips2011



Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MauiMeyer wrote:

Hood River County isn't trying to "outlaw" anything...In most other zones, (especially in the City) vacation rentals are all fine, and no one, including me is trying to run them off.

Tell that to all the vacation rental owners who received cease and desist letters from the county, especially those in non-EFU zones. If you want people to stop calling you a liar, just stop lying.
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nicorico



Joined: 14 Sep 2012
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, thank you Maui. Great clarification there.

Second, Phazle I think we've held all along that it's not up to us and it is not going to be decided in this forum or any other what public use laws will apply to the basin if brought to a court of law, so please stop trying to bate a fight and beat a dead horse... It's a waste of time.

However, let's not let your group shift the focus right now to the cable park. It is quite clear that the Friends' main agenda at this point is to stop or handicap the hotel project by way of using pending legal pressure as bargaining chips behind closed doors.

The public needs to know what you (The Friends) intends to do with public resources and support. There is no valid reason to take what has been up until now a public discussion, behind closed doors. You can't even lay out your specific 'demands'. I wonder why?
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MauiMeyer



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isobars ~ No offense taken, and please accept my apology if I sounded like I was attacking your point. I agree, when you see all developers, lawyers and politician in a sentence, it would raise my hackles too.
Smile

Phazle ~ Other people are going to decide the public waterway issue. Not us, on this bulletin board. It's a bigger discussion. I'm sorry that you think I make it sound benign. I happen to think that it is, and that's exactly what it is, my opinion.

MikePhillips ~ If letters were sent out in error, I'm not aware of it. If that's the case, then that is a problem for our planning department, and its a simple process to come in and address it, which I'm happy to lead the charge on, on your behalf.

I'm not aware that there were letters sent out in error, but if there are, please, come to our commission meeting and present them. I'd love to meet you.

I don't think you've been to a County Commission meeting, have you? They are sometimes slow, and often can be boring, but they are a good way to get to know what's happening in the community. Someday perhaps we'll get them put on TV so more people can see them.......
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14339

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MauiMeyer wrote:
I don't think you've been to a County Commission meeting ... Someday perhaps we'll get them put on TV so more people can see them.......

Aren't many of them already on World's Wildest Videos, Town Hall Meetings Gone Wild, and Brawling Commissioners, Part II? Wink
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phazle5499



Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nicorico writes:

"Phazle I think we've held all along that it's not up to us and it is not going to be decided in this forum or any other what public use laws will apply to the basin if brought to a court of law"

Maui Myer writes:
Phazle ~ Other people are going to decide the public waterway issue. Not us, on this bulletin board
_______________________________________
Completely agree with both of you. And I would add that the complex land use issues dealing with the set backs from the ordinary high water mark in the boat basin, placing a commercial building in the flood plain, storm water run-off, salmon impact in the boat basin and other issues are not going to be decided by negotiations in public or PR and lobbying efforts on this forum or any other forum. Other people, most likely the courts, are ultimately going to decide these issues. So maybe we all ought to just back off, shut down the frantic PR efforts and let these issues play out where they belong.
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MauiMeyer



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

...The eastern Bloc edition is especially hilarious. Very Happy
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hoodrivertruth



Joined: 01 Nov 2012
Posts: 1

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2012 8:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Aren't many of them already on World's Wildest Videos, Town Hall Meetings Gone Wild, and Brawling Commissioners, Part II? Wink

Speaking of Town Hall Meetings Gone Wild, check out this classic Hood River edition starring our own Maui Meyer. The fireworks start at the 2 minute mark. Very Happy

http://youtu.be/9Cgcwb11dPI

- Mark
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scooter_bell



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 9:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nic,

This is about lawsuits not public policy decisions being made behind closed doors.

Those lawsuits are public record.


The friends I believe have insisted that the ending results of the negotiation become public.

When two parties come together to settle a lawsuit instead of going to court it is done behind close doors. It happens for the same reason that the Port went into an "executive session" behind closed doors after the public meeting the other night. Can you figure out why they do that? Can you figure out why opposing parties whether they be heads of state, city councilman, or port commissioners do that?

Do yourself a favor and talk to a handful of attorneys and ask them if they think a multi party, multi suit, multi project, multi day negotiation without confidentiality has any chance of success. I will buy you lunch if you can find more than 3 out of 10 who would respond right away with a yes. You won't find any!

Do us all a favor and educate yourself on lawsuit negotiations and mediation practices and quit trying to speak out about something you know very little.

The fact is you work directly with the Naitos and have been a very vocal advocate for them. My personal belief is that you take your marching orders from Forrest, the Naitos and the Mayor in your attempt to paint us as the evil non profit group blackmailing our fare city. I come to that conclusion by watching the verbiage you all use in concert when speaking out in public about the same ideas at the same time. Curious!

Your employer Dakine will benefit financially as well. (PS I don't work at the kayak shed anymore so you can't use that tired old conspiracy theory.) Maybe Naito is paying you and Forrest or have offered you incentives like free season passes. Not that I think that is your motivation but I thought I would give you back some of your own medicine.

Your coordinated smear campaign deserves credit in being consistent and unified but its time to call you out on your BS. Your conspiracy theories are juvenile at best but is all you have at this point.

This will be over soon and we can move on to planning a wonderful west bank park and esplanade. I don't plan on resting until that is accomplished.

These words represent my own personal opinions and not the opinions of the Friends.
Derek Bell
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nicorico



Joined: 14 Sep 2012
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! Welcome back D-Bell! I've missed you too buddy, good to see you wearing that foil hat again. It brings a smile to my face...seriously.

Negotiations can happen at McDonalds while sharing chicken nuggets and a chocolate shake with your opponent if you like. Confidentiality is not mandatory is my point and stating othewise is incorrect.

Executive sessions are held behind closed doors, but media can generally still be present. Did you know that?

But I digress, I didn't realize I was speaking to an expert on legal process and negotiations now. Is that where you've been? You learn something new every day I guess Smile

Listen, I get why you want to have confidential negotiations. I think most people do, the problem is your group is not being very forthcoming about their reasons why. So far the reason has been because you do not want what is said in these negotiations to be misrepresented outside of them. If the discussion is available to the public, then there would be no question about how to represent what was said, right?

As a non-profit public interest group, you have the right to seek confidentiality. There is no question about that. But seeing as you are in fact a public interest group, I believe it is in the publics interest to at the very least know what your group intends to negotiate on our behalf. It seems it has very little to do with the cable park and mostly to do with the hotel project. Is that incorrect? Does that qualify as a conspiracy theory? If you care to layout what you intend to negotiate and set me/us straight, please do so! Furthermore, it would give the Naito's a chance to respond and accomidate as they have done recently on their own accord.

We are now weeks and weeks in to this. If your group would have started negotiating when it could have, we would be that much closer to a happy ending for your group, the basin and Hood River.

These words represent my own personal opinions and not the opinions of the Naito's, Dakine, Forrest, my mom and/or Justin Bieber's cat..granted it's a very persuasive cat. Maybe I should have said, 'purrsuasive'...

...I think I've reached my iWindsurf quota for the day now.

-n
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scooter_bell



Joined: 15 Nov 2006
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so lets sum up your main concerns, Nic.

1. Friends have not convinced you as to WHY they want confidential negotiations? Is that really it? Ill give it try...

I am not a legal expert but the several Lawyers who I have spoken too seem to agree with me. When one party can leave each negotiation and then take the information and give it to the media, internet forums and their public operatives to smear the other party for a tactical advantage it leaves the negotiation with nowhere to go. The next day you would be back at square one if in fact both parties actually showed up for round two. That is why I personally think it is so important.

Trust is a major component to a negotiation and without the confidentiality agreement there is no trust. I know many lawyers and none of them would participate in that scenario without a confidentiality agreement for the simple reason that if one of those parties refuses to be silent until the negotiations are done there is no basis for a successful negotiation.

If the results are to become public anyway what is your need to know what is said each night after a multi day negotiation? This is a lawsuit between private parties not a negotiation deciding public policy. The facts of the cases are known to both parties and the public. They are public record, no?


2. Friends are a public interest group and therefore has no right to negotiate lawsuits in private?

Well you haven't convinced me as to why they shouldn't have that right. Again, if the outcome is public why does it matter to you what private parties say while negotiating? If both parties wanted to settle than it wouldn't be an issue but when one of those parties attempts to buck the standard legal process of private negotiations there seems to be a huge lack of trust between parties and a negotiation is futile. Might as well let the courts settle it at that point.

3. What will the Friends be negotiating?

Read the lawsuits and that is what they will be negotiating I would think. I think they have already state they believe certain aspects of the hotel and commercial building are in violation of the law and they want the Naitos to follow the law even if local agencies have not asked that of them. They have listed several of their main points on their website.

http://www.publicwaterfront.org/ under the "Update" tab.

-Location of buildings in relation to flood planes and the basin is a big one. As we have all seen this week flood planes should be taken seriously.

-Stormwater runoff into the basin is another point being debated. I don't want a lovely sheen of oil on the water after a good rain. The salmon smolt, birds and other critters wouldn't like that either.

-Waterfront path. The port decided years ago that a waterfron path would be an integral part of our community both socially and economically. The replacement of our cities waterfront path with the Naitos private deck is being challenged as well.

An essential part of our democracy to allow its citizens the right to challenge their local agencies decisions and the decisions of other citizens that they think are breaking laws/codes etc. Is that not a right of all of us as citeznes?

While nothing will be decided on this forum it is important to discuss the things that affect our community.

This is my personal take on things and again I am not speaking for the Friends here.

Derek Bell


Last edited by scooter_bell on Fri Nov 02, 2012 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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