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Cam Vs. No-Cam (Again)
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2302

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KonaJoe, since no cams form first with a pump, then deform somewhat after, they BOTH form and deform, an ACTIVE sail, as oppossed to the cam sails rather solid shape, with some loose leech for pumping.
Please try to understand what a no cam sail does, when loaded you the rider, and then unloaded by insufficient wind as the rider is still trying to get onto a solid plane.
If the winds are strong enough, a no cam only forms, from a static no wind flattish shape to a fully loaded dynamic shape.
It's this ability to load and unload that allows the no cams to pump more efficiently than the more solid locked draft of the cam sails.
But of course, the rider needs to know HOW top pump, to make it work.
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1203

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

KonaJoe, don't worry about deformation or nondeformation.

Cams work to lock the sail's shape. It works to be a fixed wing, which is great for heavily overpowered conditions. It also works great for set and forget planing. But it's a numb feel compared to a camless sail. If we were talking cars, a cammed sail is something you ride while a camless is something you drive. Camless sails offer you much much more control in every aspect of sailing (except when heavily overpowered). You will in all likelihood be able to pump to a planer earlier with a camless sail, because of the feel and "touch" you'll have. Also, you'll be in better shape tacking, jibing, waterstarting etc. And when you're ready to duck jibe and/or sail in waves, you really don't want cams.

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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 1979

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konajoe,

There are two parts to pumping a sail, obviously the “catch” part where you catch the wind in the sail as you pull the sail aft and there is the “slide” faze where the sail is slid into the wind to prepare for the next “catch.” It is the “slide” faze that give the non-cam sail the advantage. Because an RAF sail goes flat or neutral when not filled with wind it slides into the wind better than a cambered sail that is more difficult to “slide” into the wind because the cams maintain a foil.

Coachg
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the non-CAM sails pump better, why the raceboard people use CAM sails for both their low-and high-wind sails? They pump a lot in low-wind !

I also find strange that the magazine comparison was done with 6.5 size sails. I think it is more insteresting to discuss this with large sails, such as 9.5.
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 970

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sailboarder, I can tell you why.
In racing, the BIGGEST sail blocks the most wind, and can get thru turbulent wind. Sailors can hold bigger fully CAMMED, locked in race sails than they can hold their biggert no cam sails.
The multi cams also give you higher angles, on wider course and slalom boards, needed even in 8 ball downwind slalom, as you gotta get back up the race course for the next start.
The locked draft allow lower angles as well, much lower than just broad reaching.
Notice, lots of speed trials guys use no cams, besides cams.
6.5 because that is considered huge in any windsurfing venue. Your venue, needing a 9.5, might not have a big windsurfing population, so the mags don't care. They are selling the the majority.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1927
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 1:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another reason is that the foil shape of an RAF requires pressure to appear, whereas a cam sail does not. Much light wind racing occurs in conditions where the pressure changes by a factor of four in very few knots of wind speed difference. That means when a lull to four knots occurs the RAf sail will tend to go flat and makes over sheeting very easy, while the same size cam sail to continue to develop rotational lift and help the sailor keep the forces in balance.

Basically, a RAF sail turns gutless in light and variable winds and makes for a sail challenging to drive a long raceboard.

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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 394

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't tried a cammed sail yet, but my next sail will be a 9.5. I guess it will be cammed, since light winds=variable winds around here.

I look forward to try a sail that will be always ready to benefit from the gusts, instead of a sail that will have to "inflate" before pulling.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2302

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Do you know how selfish you sound right now".... taken from a Honda commercial.

Very Happy Very Happy
Not all 9.5's are the same. Get a Fomula racing 9.5, and it's made to handle breezes from 13-28mph. Get a recreational freeride 9.5, maybe closer to 11-20 mph winds.
And no cams, you can probably find them ranging about the same.
Which planes up earlier depends on your skill and knowledge. For those who just stand there, a multi cam rec freeride sail generally yanks the lazy rider onto a plane soonest.
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NC-Paddle-Surfer



Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Cam Vs. No-Cam (Again) Reply with quote

konajoe wrote:


......When a no-cam rig is laying on the ground with no pressure on it, it is pretty flat.

Doesn't it make sense that no-cam sails lose their shape and power in lulls.....



We think alike. Sit back, you're going to like this story....

Awhile back, I bought my first ever Ezzy sail. I rigged it on the only mast I had, not an Ezzy. I was shocked at how bad it rigged.

I immediately contacted David Ezzy for advice. I was shocked by what he said. This Ezzy no-cam sail was designed to rig and look exactly like mine looked on this mast (ugly, so I thought). Well it turned out, according to David, this sail when rigged correctly, places the batten tips behind the mast, not in front of the mast like 99% of the other RAFs being sold. You see, this no cam sail looks exactly like it HAS CAMS, even though it doesn't. It's a full belly deep draft sail laying on the beach.

On the water I was blown away. The best sail I had ever owned. I now own nothing but Ezzy no cam sails.

I'll never go back to the type no cam sails that go dead flat when rigged on the beach. YUK. Not for me. Ezzy my hero!
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13808

PostPosted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hurricanes also had full shape lying on the beach 30 years ago. Nothing new, and no panaceas.
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