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cable park/hotel negotiations
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CUSalin



Joined: 11 Mar 2001
Posts: 308
Location: Portland / Hood River, OR

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
Wow, I really didn't want to get that involved in this. But okay one last post, then I'm done......

1. My main objection to this whole thing is that it is NOT about windsurfing or even kiting, but actually a cable park and a hotel. I think it should be in the political group since it is OFF TOPIC for Windsurfing.



Johnl, point taken. Not about "windsurfing," or "kiteboarding," but rather about many "windsurfers," and "kiteboarders" who live, work, and play in and around The Basin.

In addition, please note that this topic has attracted a very significant qty of readers and posters which I think qualifies it as relevant.

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westender



Joined: 02 Aug 2007
Posts: 642
Location: Portland / Gorge

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 9:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cascade Locks has a place that would make a World Class Cable Park and room for a hotel too. Just sayin. Again.
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CUSalin



Joined: 11 Mar 2001
Posts: 308
Location: Portland / Hood River, OR

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FWIW- You're making sense to me Skiman.
======================================================

skiman wrote:
I do not know the reasons why the friends wants to negotiate in private. But having been an attorney, and since the friends lawsuit is the only reason this matter even got to the point of getting Naito to back off on the cable park and got the city and port to work together and find a solution, I think you should be thankful for the Friends who spent the time, money and effort to make this happen, and cut some slack for them and their attorney. The matter certainly is not being served well here by making libelous statements about their attorney. In fact - it is probably seving to harden positions and more likely to result in Naito refusing to come to the table.

The fact is - the friends filed the lawsuit and raised the money to do it. Most negotiations to settle a lawsuit are conducted in private. In fact I have never seen nor participated in a public settlement discussion of a lawsuit between the parties. Naito needs to get off his tantrum high chair, and sit down like an adult and get this done. He has everything to lose and nothing to gain with his little peevish fit, and contributing to it on this forum is not helping.

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mikephillips2011



Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CUSalin wrote:

I believe negotiations to come up with a written agreement are in order, and it's between the parties in dispute. The cable-park was "our" dispute - the LUBA suit is The Friends dispute with Naito and The City.


Look, it is very simple. If the private company Naito and the private organization "Friends of the Waterfront" want to speak in private that is nobody's business. They can talk about whatever they want, wherever they want. Also, If either private party does not want to speak to the other party, that is completely within their rights.

However, discussions with the Port Commission, the Mayor, and City Council are a completely different matter. Any discussions and deals made with those parties concerning millions of taxpayer dollars and precious public resources made behind closed doors in secrecy are 100% wrong.
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CUSalin



Joined: 11 Mar 2001
Posts: 308
Location: Portland / Hood River, OR

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you have this right mikephillips
=====================================================

mikephillips2011 wrote:
CUSalin wrote:

I believe negotiations to come up with a written agreement are in order, and it's between the parties in dispute. The cable-park was "our" dispute - the LUBA suit is The Friends dispute with Naito and The City.


Look, it is very simple. If the private company Naito and the private organization "Friends of the Waterfront" want to speak in private that is nobody's business. They can talk about whatever they want, wherever they want. Also, If either private party does not want to speak to the other party, that is completely within their rights.

However, discussions with the Port Commission, the Mayor, and City Council are a completely different matter. Any discussions and deals made with those parties concerning millions of taxpayer dollars and precious public resources made behind closed doors in secrecy are 100% wrong.

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jsampiero



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 678

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:

5. Josh this is for you. I KNOW you think the cable park would be fun etc. BUT that could be built anywhere. How many Columbia Gorge National Scenic areas do you think there are?
Simply put, it doesn't fit "the image" of the gorge (IMHO). Let me use another example based on your principal. A gambling casino built instead of the Hotel. Many would find it "fun", it would provide jobs, it would have more people using it than the current use. It would provide income to the Hood River area. BUT does it belong here? No. Same concept as the cable park.


But here's the thing: you don't know what you're talking about. And I don't mean that in the offensive, you're-an-idiot-and-I'm-perfect-way.

I mean it like this: You've never seen a cable park. You've never seen two dozen kids lining up for rides, or rushing down there on bikes after school, or world-class athletes competing.

We've all seen what's been happening at the basin the last couple years. Some of us are more objective in what we perceive there than others.

Your (and, I believe many of the friends' supporters) expectation of what the cable park would be has mainly been informed by people who were against it from the mere concept - who never put an iota of time into considering whether something THEY don't like would be GOOD for other people. They've told you it's noisy, environmentally problematic, and the equivalent of bringing disney world to the Gorge. I'm sorry, but that manner of thinking just makes you appear ignorant. How do I know? I lived IN freaking disney central. Orlando, Florida. Do I miss Disney? Fuck. No. But the cable park doesn't equal disney. See the picture below. That's a cable park. Oh, and see the other picture. That's Las Vegas.

Ditch the casino comparison. It's in no way apt. A cable park is still an athletic endeavor. It's something residents can engage in on a regular basis. It attracts active tourists - the kind we already attract. A casino does none of those things. (For the record, I have had fun at casinos on the occasions I've been. No, I wouldn't want in Hood River.)

This is a place where extreme sports have found a home. That's a fit. A great fit. Are there other sports here, less "extreme"? Absolutely. Room for those too. Everybody can play.

I'd still support a cable park in Cascade Locks, Bingen, or Stevenson, although it'd be harder for me to justify a season pass.



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jsampiero



Joined: 20 Jun 2006
Posts: 678

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 3:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:

5. Josh this is for you. I KNOW you think the cable park would be fun etc. BUT that could be built anywhere. How many Columbia Gorge National Scenic areas do you think there are?
Simply put, it doesn't fit "the image" of the gorge (IMHO). Let me use another example based on your principal. A gambling casino built instead of the Hotel. Many would find it "fun", it would provide jobs, it would have more people using it than the current use. It would provide income to the Hood River area. BUT does it belong here? No. Same concept as the cable park.


But here's the thing: you don't know what you're talking about. And I don't mean that in the offensive, you're-an-idiot-and-I'm-perfect-way.

I mean it like this: You've never seen a cable park. You've never seen two dozen kids lining up for rides, or rushing down there on bikes after school, or world-class athletes competing.

We've all seen what's been happening at the basin the last couple years. Some of us are more objective in what we perceive there than others.

Your (and, I believe many of the friends' supporters) expectation of what the cable park would be has mainly been informed by people who were against it from the mere concept - who never put an iota of time into considering whether something THEY don't like would be GOOD for other people. They've told you it's noisy, environmentally problematic, and the equivalent of bringing disney world to the Gorge. I'm sorry, but that manner of thinking just makes you appear ignorant. How do I know? I lived IN freaking disney central. Orlando, Florida. Do I miss Disney? Fuck. No. But the cable park doesn't equal disney. See the picture below. That's a cable park. Oh, and see the other picture. That's Las Vegas.

Ditch the casino comparison. It's in no way apt. A cable park is still an athletic endeavor. It's something residents can engage in on a regular basis. It attracts active tourists - the kind we already attract. A casino does none of those things. (For the record, I have had fun at casinos on the occasions I've been. No, I wouldn't want in Hood River.)

And the "scenic area" argument is hard to swallow when it's surrounded by freeway and light industrial. Sorry.

This is a place where extreme sports have found a home. That's a fit. A great fit. Are there other sports here, less "extreme"? Absolutely. Room for those too. Everybody can play.

I'd still support a cable park in Cascade Locks, Bingen, or Stevenson, although it'd be harder for me to justify a season pass.



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phazle5499



Joined: 03 Jul 2006
Posts: 104

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl writes (in respons to jsampiero):
"I KNOW you think the cable park would be fun etc. BUT that could be built anywhere. How many Columbia Gorge National Scenic areas do you think there are?"

__________________________________
Oh, so now johnl you claim to be an environmentalist? lol Why do you think the Columbia Gorge is so "scenic"? It's because of environmental laws that have been put in place and enforced. But when it comes to the environmental issues in the boat basin, eg., no building below the ohm (ordinary high water mark of the Columbia River), storm water run-off, salmon habitat you are willing to turn a blind eye. Visit the basin in the spring, at daybreak or evening, and you will see hundreds of salmon smolt popping up all over the place. That may not be important to you, but it would be if you were a salmon--and it is for keeping the Columbia River Gorge scenic.
These concerns were given a free pass by the planning commission and the city council. I guess they felt these issues were none of their business and the city needs another hotel/motel on the waterfront, and therefore it's "good for the community" Do you believe that a developer could get around these issues in Portland? Then why should they be ignored in Hood River? I believe that's why the friends and their attorney stepped in, when no one else did, to appeal these concerns to LUBA and in the courts, so the waterfront will indeed remain "scenic". I have nothing against development when it conforms to requirements for building on the waterfront. But it needs to be remembered that we are talking about a developer, not Mother Theresa.

So johnl, it's good to hear you appreciate the Columbia Gorge Scenic Area,but have you really thought about what is required to keep it scenic? Your statement referring to me that the things I said "all seem to be this enviormental/political garbage. I'm not impressed. It appears he/she wants to use this forum for his/her own political agendas."

and your tossing out such schoolyard insults as

"WHY do they NEED to be non public hearings? That is a far more important point than yours.
Maybe you have your head so far up the "Friends" butt you can't see the rest of the world, but think about this.
and
Why does "Friends" THINK they should even be invited to a hearing between Naito, the Port and the city? They are NOT a primary party. At best a secondary party. "

In my opinion, these comments and others just reflect your complete lack of understanding of the issues that impact the Columbia Gorge Scenic Area (that you claim to enjoy) the city of hood river and the waterfront.
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puppydog



Joined: 11 Jul 2008
Posts: 86

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

CGNSA does not apply, this is in Urban Exempt
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Transatlantic



Joined: 13 Sep 2011
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 1:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

phazzle do you even know what the boat basin was used for ten years ago?
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