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Formula fun factor
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1345

PostPosted: Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

People are different. Some, I notice, are even of the opposite sex! Razz

At our local beach we have a range of options. On an all too typical gusty offshore force 4/5 ish non surf but choppy sea day (E coast... prevailing winds WSW) all will be blasting but on very different combo's.

Some prefer fast slaloms with the biggest rigs they can hold down for supersonic speeds, others will be on mid range (84 to 94 to 100 litre) freerides or cross boards (My usual choice if not long board cruising) with average sized rigs, and a few will be on small wave boards (and cursing at the lack of surf) because that's all they live for. When formula was at its height that pair also would have been out wrestling in the gusts with their huge rigs. Thepoint is that everyone was planing and, presumably, (apart from the angry wave heads) feeling reasonably satisfied with life.

As regards the formula v. large freeride issue, I checked out the 160 L Bic Techno with 8.0 rig against the friends formula and bigger rig in that 12/15 knot wind range. There was no doubt that he had the advantage BUT, we were both mostly planing, and the difference was not nearly as marked as might have been expected. We agreed to differ on who was having the most fun. Naturally, I think I was! Laughing
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speedysailor



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 841

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pawing through my collection of assorted mags, catalogs and other literature stored in the basement when I should have been working, I dug up some stuff of interest to the various statements and topics on this thread. First of all, in regards to the Angulo Sumo a retailer of their product back in '05 had this blurp about the tri-panel construction >>It's early planing center panel is perfectly complimented by it's two lifted side panels<< but I also found a tester stated >>In marginal winds it needs some persuasion to set planing, but overall the shape is very efficient.<< Back on topic the big issue I have with the large 160 liter boards would be the same that I have with the 155 liter Formula ones i.e. the rear foot straps are quite difficult to enter in that they are so far out on the rail. Now that I'm a "senior citizen", I really don't need to be challenged physically like that. I found an advertisement and photos for the 2007 Techno 2 of the 133 and 160 in Southport Rigging's 2008 catalogue. Obviously the 160 has to have footstraps out on the rail to balance a fin larger than 50 cm and 8.0 or bigger sails. This is why I definitely prefer my newly acquired Fanatic Shark 145 which can handle my 8.0 and 9.0 sails. I found a boardTest '08 article in Windsurfing featuring Light Air Boards which addresses this with >>one tester noted the Fanatic's foot straps were "in the magic position for combining comfort and speed."<< The Icon 160 with a 9.6 usually is rigged in flat water and the strap position isn't so challenging as it is with smaller sails. After this past month or two of sailing with the Icon and the 8.4, I'm ready for Florida where I stored the Shark.
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While I can agree a Fanatic 145 Shark turns and handles like a much smaller board, and can handle 20+ winds with aplomb, I don't think it's nearly the pure lightwind board as it's brother's and kin
I have 102 liter and 120 liter boards that plane up WAAAAY sooner, being lighter, harder rails, true flat rocker out the tail, and narrower WPoints with wider tails.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1345

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The outboard straps on my Techno 160 (the bonny yellow one) are perfectly placed and comfortable when blasting (even with my size 12 feet and boots) and control the 50 fin and 8.0 sail 'spot on.'

Of course I wear a seat harness and 'crank out' in the old fashioned way, because I like to, which I also do in the Kona outboard straps.

In fact, blasting both is so comfortable that I have a job not to nod off to sleep at times, but then I am 75 years old in just 3 weeks time. (Though I don't yet drool ... except at pictures of Phantom and Exocet race boards.) (And perhaps a certain film star!)
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1011

PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2012 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only have size 11 feet. Straps perfectly placed on my JP and Zlab slalom boards, course boards, and the L-8 I've been using.
If I had bigger feet or was heavier in weight, I'd use a bigger fin and sail.
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speedysailor



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 841

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all, when I have referred to the placement of straps on FW and large freeride boards, I am not concerned with how they ride, but how easy it is to enter the straps. When they are way out on the rail, they are difficult to enter for me and other less than fully nimble spastics. As to getting the Shark 145 up on a plane quickly, the review in Winsurfing Mag cited that as it's best characteristic in a graphic. However, I do not doubt there are better boards that have less volume.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2388

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 4:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heavyweights generally have more trouble than lightweights with outside straps. Skill level and what you're used to adds to it.
I've ridden dedicated slalom boards since 1985. No strap is too far out for speed and jumping. Some would jibe better if inboard.
Once you start to ride real slalom boards, outside straps don't bother you, and you'll know how to make them work. It's a learning experience, just like railing down to a laydown frontside bottom turn, it's hard until you figure it out.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14163

PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedysailor wrote:
Pawing through my collection of assorted mags, catalogs and other literature stored in the basement ...

Too much information, dude. Besides, this is supposed to be a family-friendly forum.
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speedysailor



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 841

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 3:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
Too much information, dude.
There's never too much information, there is only too much wrong information.
zirtaeb wrote:
Heavyweights generally have more trouble than lightweights with outside straps. Skill level and what you're used to adds to it.
I've never tried to hide the fact that I am over-weight. I also don't know why the average sized windsurfer would be on Formula or big Freeride boards. I've met the top competitors in South America. They were over 6 feet in height. Even the PWA race sailors are big, strong men. However, I'ld like to post some more about Boards. The boards to which I am referring are not snow boards, either. Funny, but skis used to be called boards. I have my parent's wooden skis leaning against the wall along with my wooden slalom water ski. Usually, the manu's kick off the season with a big industry wide demo for the shops. I went to a few of them here in the east. That was when Burton made the only snow board. Having demo'ld in one day a dozen different pairs of skis, I realize that every board is slightly different. However, when you take a comparison of 160 liter freeride boards like the Bic Techno and Naish Icon, the differences aren't really important. I believe that the same goes for Formula. Make the claim that the equipment you are selling has come a long way in ten years would be a common salesman's ploy. Once Formula windsurfing was contrived and the early kinks worked out, the differences in boards really haven't merited the high prices on them.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1345

PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure of the point you're making Speedy? You don't know why the average sized (weight?) windsurfer would be on a 160 litre freeride?

I suppose I qualify in that I'm 180 lbs in full gear, and 6' 3" , (with size 12 feet Cool ). i.e. I'm not a heavyweight but neither am I a lightweight.

I use the 160 techno which I bought in 2005 (nearly 8 years old) only occasionally in those irritating puffy light sea breeze days of 10 to 15 ish m.p.h. I don't deny that formula and 11 metre rig would get going earlier than the Techno but I don't see a big enough difference to justify the huge extra expense.

As to why 160 litres Freeride, and not 145L Freeride, the 160 WILL plane earlier in iffy conditions, even for my average weight. (Checked a few years back when 145 L Starboards were in common use at our beach, and the 160 beat them.)

I'm well aware that there are now newer smaller super early planing (CLAIMED) boards (J.P.) but some of us remain sceptical. I think the old adage that there is no substitute for volume still holds true. I see no reason to think the 160 Techno, as infrequently I use it in those specific conditions, will ever need to be replaced. (Nor apparently, do Bic. Laughing )
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