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AC 72 Wipeout!!!
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 420

PostPosted: Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jse wrote:
It made yesterday's Crissy session interesting

I know that I am beating a dead horse but these "boats" are so out of their league sailing in the Bay area that is not even funny. They are ridiculous $100,000,000 toys designed for a place like San Diego and they should stay there!

But they made history: it must be the first EVER 72 footer capsizing in such moderate winds. Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed This is getting fun! Twisted Evil Very Happy
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us44eric



Joined: 25 Jun 2003
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To each, his or her own, but man I think the America's Cup high speed Cats are amazing in the SF Bay.

Speaking of AC 45s first --
After two AC 45 World Series Regattas that have already taken place in the Bay with a dozen or so boats from all over the world, I'd say these boats have surprisingly displayed their prowess on these waters. They're fast, on edge, and yes they capsize, but this is push-the-limits racing and even still the capsizes have been the exception rather than the rule. And what great racing - fast, fun, short races near shore that can be seen! It's leaps and bounds more exciting than previous Cups, whether watching on TV/net or in person, for sailors and non-sailors alike. At both events (not just Fleet Week), the sea wall and Marina were packed with all kinds of people on the weekend days watching the racing. And both events had some real coverage on broadcast NBC, not just in the Bay, all-over the country! This is sailing on TV, in the US! (and this isn't even the real thing yet!) It's showing off high-speed sailing in the incredible winds and waters of the Bay, which also happens to be something that windsurfers can appreciate.

As for AC 72s --
Team USA did indeed make history -- they were the first to capsize an AC 72. And judging from reports, the iwindsurf graph, the ebb, and the video footage, it seems it was pretty windy and choppy at the time and location of the capsize, even for Bay standards. Of course, the AC 72 is unlike virtually all other 72 footers. And similar length boats that are anything similar to AC 72s (namely the previous gen AC multihulls) didn't sail in nearly as much wind and chop.

There's still a lot of work to do to figure out the 72s before the actual racing. And I expect the best campaigns will have it figured out in time. If AC 45's can handle the Bay and rarely capsize, a well-designed and well-sailed AC 72 could be able to handle the Bay even better with a considerably longer potential water line that would be even less affected by chop. Of course, hydrofoiling AC 72s introduce another challenge compared to the non-foiling AC 45s. To foil or not to foil is up to each team.

I think the devastating crash of USA's 1st AC 72 (reportedly only $8-10 million surprisingly) is a blow. I suppose it's better now than later. And not really for the same reasons, but I do agree that this is getting fun!

While Ellison may be the pinnacle of ridiculous wealth and toys, the latest America's Cup endeavor deserves some credit I think. For those who haven't witnessed any of it, you might check it out, whether on the web at AmericasCup.com, or in person in the Bay or on NBC when racing starts up again next year.

SF Bay is one of the most intense, exciting places to sail. The AC high speed Cats are among the most intense, exciting sailing vessels. Not a bad match, I'd say, and it's for all to see.
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 970

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's great stuff, better show, and would highlight recreation in the bay for years to come.
Design wise, it's not a great idea to leave out a flexible bow spoiler, as the hulls are basically upside down boat bows, ready to lift back out of the water by design, but little to resist going under.
We as windsurfers know the wind effects when you go from upwind to a broad reach, and how much energy is put upon the top of the sail that drives the bow downwards, especially in sticky water (close together chop) and winds close to 30.
Maybe they should hire a local Formula sailior (Chris?) to lend some advice based on their 25 years of racing in the SF Bay.
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 970

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or is that Eric?
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sergem



Joined: 24 Oct 2003
Posts: 390

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeD wrote:
...
Maybe they should hire a local Formula sailior (Chris?) to lend some advice based on their 25 years of racing in the SF Bay.


They need to talk to Mike Zajicek
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 970

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike hasn't sailed more than 4 times the last two years.
I'd think someone with 30 years of racing experience in the bay, someone who has time (retired), and someone who can express his thoughts in a clear concise manner, someone who's not self centered (like me), and someone who's humble.... Steve S-3.
Me, I come from a motorcycle road racing and car foil background, so I'd know a bit about foils, lift, and downward pressure.
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 970

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And every windsurfer knows the problems stems from a bow designed for flat water racing, little twist in the sails, super tall mast, no way to sheet out or release mast top pressure, but more important, no way for the bow to resist submerging in the first place. Flexible foils that rest clear of the water under normal sailiing is the most obvious solution.
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goinoff



Joined: 01 Feb 1998
Posts: 154

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ORACLE USA Phone Call Joke:

http://youtu.be/K-HaQhGSgjw
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whitevan01



Joined: 29 Jun 2007
Posts: 456

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome! that happened to me a few times (the pitch poling, that is) on my Hobie 14 back in the very early 1970's until I learned to control it better after a few hours of sailing!!
the Hobie 14, at least, was easily rightable unless the mast stuck in the mud.

I love that phone call video.
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victor



Joined: 03 Aug 1998
Posts: 546

PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah, i've seen catamarans with much smaller sails doing the same thing. i've gone over the handlebars quite a few times on even smaller windsurfing equipment plenty of times in less wind and flatter water.

all of that stuff is fun to watch particularly when someone else is doing it.

thanks, larry.
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