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Formula fun factor
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1363

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 2:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely agree that those rare occasions on which everything is in perfect harmony and all's right with the world is what keeps some of us locked into sailing for life.

My sense of heaven on earth has more often than not been (as Nick B describes) those magic carpet long board 12 m.p.h. semi planing gallumphs over a lightish windswept sunlit gloriously swelly open sea, breathing in and absorbing the atmosphere, while watching some island destination steadily drawing closer. Guaranteed to bring a burst of the Pavarottis to any sensitive soul. Laughing

I always compare short board ripping and slashing v. long board cruising, to fighter or bomber pilot mentality. i.e. short boarding mistaking frenetic activity for a sense of purpose ( Twisted Evil ) as against purposefully and doggedly piloting tha long board towards a specific target. ( Razz )

Trouble is, I can't quite figure what game the formula types are at? Laughing
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1363

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a more considered note ...I wonder if those who stay the course are motivated more by love of the sea (or just water), rather than the means of using it. Sure, windsurfing is a highly addictive, and good gear can make it more satisfying, but my special memories are all from conditions, rather than the gear itself.

Coming originally from a sea kayaking background kept long board cruising always on the front burner to balance out the short board obsession. Long boards are never going to be everyones cup of tea, but I feel they are very important to our sport.

One such memory from earlier days.... a beat out in a force 3ish to circle Staffa (Fingals Cave) on a new Bic Be-Bop longboard, and a stunning and glorious 45 minute 7 mile close reach at that magical gallumphing speed, up and down the swells, back to the mainland. The surges, the sea scents, the circling birds, the tip of the mast seemingly carving through the high cirrus clouds, and that unstoppable movement were enthralling. It was perfect.

If I could afford it I'd have a fleet of the latest Phantoms and Exocets and curse that the days aren't long enough to make full use of them all. So many plans still to carry through, and time running out BUT, the memories of what has been done will carry to the grave.

Now what more could any windsurfer ask for!
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speedysailor



Joined: 11 Sep 2007
Posts: 841

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
If the scale read out in Knots ( say 28 ) then the MPH would have
been even higher (like 32MPH), so your suspicion goes the
wrong direction.

-Craig
Thank you for reminding me of that. In fact I corrected my post. At the time he showed me his windmeter which was one of good manufacture. However, a reading taken on the beach may often not mirror that out on the water. They often tell me that the winds are higher in the middle of Waquoit Bay. Nevertheless, no one ever has done a scientific study of it. In fact, I believe that they are taking the fact that they have gotten up to speed when they reach the middle and that is what they think is a higher wind. Then there are the totally preposterous theories I hear. One guy told me in anger that the woods on either shore create a Venturi effect on the bay. Dr. Ronin, the expert kiter, who holds an astrophysics Ph.D. claims the tide determines the wind speed. He has other rather amusing theories which he has concocted mocking the non-sense you hear on the shore.
DanWeiss wrote:
I think jibing is less about the board and more about the sailor when it comes down to it.
Once one can jibe a board on a regular basis, and that means using any kind of gibe, that person can determine how difficult a board is to do it. The same goes for tacking a board. In regards to large boards and non-carving jibes, a formula board has been the easiest board I have used. Tacking is a different story, however.
DanWeiss wrote:
As for Mr. Swift's comment about sail sizing and wind speed he knows not of what he speaks. Way back in the early days of FW I regularly sailed my 9.3 in winds above 25 when the water was pretty flat. Gear is so much better these days that one can sail huge sails in big swell and chop without getting too out of shape.
I would like to know how the posters here have determined the wind speed when they make their claims. That is what I would say may be in error. I have talked with enough windsurfers to know that most of them lack a good scientific education. In addition their statements regarding the wind are very much subjective and often not backed by any real or objective observations. Just as an example Dan W. throws out the figure 25 but does not qualify it. Was it the highest reading of a gusty day on the beach? Was it a rare spike? Was it taken from a nearby I-windsurf meter, NOAA publications, a beach side hand held meter of questionable quality, or some other means like sticking your wet finger in the air or throwing up loose grass golfer style? More than likely 25 represents a guestimate and wishful thinking on the part of the sailor. Can you eat 50 eggs?
GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
Absolutely agree that those rare occasions on which everything is in perfect harmony and all's right with the world is what keeps some of us locked into sailing for life.
Geewillikers, I thought I had to die to go to heaven.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14319

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

speedysailor wrote:
totally preposterous theories ... the woods on either shore create a Venturi effect on the bay. Dr. Ronin, the expert kiter, who holds an astrophysics Ph.D. claims the tide determines the wind speed.

I would like to know how the posters here have determined the wind speed when they make their claims.

Me, too. A 4.5 and 95 liters @ 40 mph average for ordinary B&J sailors in sideshore ocean conditions? I'll believe it when I see it proven.

But it makes perfect sense to me that shoreline terrain -- be it cliffs, mountains, high-rises, or forests -- will pinch sideshore wind to various degrees. And we laugh, but the wind at Jones Beach/Nuclear Alley, on the Columbia 30 miles from the ocean, surely seems to correlate with the tide.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2407

PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If Dan says F at 25 with a 9 works, believe it.
I've seen F at 32 with 9's, but with NationalChamp caliber sailors, and they can jibe full speed thru 1' high, close together chop right next to freerider's with 4.2's and 75 liter boards. I'm sure it's not fun, but it CAN be done, and it has.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2438

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 5:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

lots of people that have never tried doing so should realize that sailing deeply off the wind de-powers their sails dramatically. add very good and experienced skill sets, and one can do lots of really cool feats on formula or any other type of gear. the key is to do the trials. then, transfer what one learns from one aspect of windsurfing to the next.

here's and example: in a simple upwind/downwind course with a single upwind mark, going from pinching up to the pin, rounding it, then turning way off as deeply downwind as possible reminds me of initiating a frontside DTL run on a wave. hard upwind to hard downwind with no new tack. if one is aspiring to get out in the waves, one could work on that.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14319

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup. There's virtually always a downwind point of sail at which the power evaporates. Find it, then come back up juuuuust enough to find a manageable power level, and then tightrope that power level by feel back downwind on a full, fast plane. With practice, it's (pretty) secure in hugely overpowering conditions even on tiny sinkers, hooked in. Of course, there's no way in hell I'd try that with my back foot out of its strap.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1493

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Been out of town, so here is my take.

1. Formula is a great light wind alternative, but can be costly.
2. To take full advantage of formula, you have to pump a lot during those 5-15 knot days to keep going or start again. It's a great workout.
3. Formula is more demanding physically (for me on a 9.2 or 11.0) compared to a 6.0 on a 105 liter board.
4. In a steady 10-12 knot wind, you can double the wind speed with the board. My personal top speed is 28.2 knots (32.5 mph) on a 7.6. (gps speed)
5. After racing in ALL of the US Open events in Corpus Christi, the really good formula sailors can manage 25-30 knot winds with 9 m sails. (Speeds are from iwindsurf and the committee boat. I personally used a 6.5 or 7.6 in those winds and did survive, although I did skip some races.
6. If I need a new light wind board, it may very well be the starboard ultrasonic.
7. Formula boards slog fine, just very slow.
8. In 10-15 knots of wind, you can get a huge adrenalin rush (or brown shorts) running down wind with an 11.0 if the chop is 2-3 ft.
9. In 15 knots of wind, you can sail circles around almost all other sailing craft on all points of sail (especially the recreational cats & keel boats).
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1030

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yet at the same time, you look down at the table wide board that is wider than a LAZER, SUNFISH, and wonder what the heck you're doing.
And when the winds do come up, you take your favorite 54 cm wide board out, and promptly step off past the rail on your first and 4th jibe attempts. Wow, that old floaty 100 liter board now sinks like a stone when you step aboard.
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DelmarEdward



Joined: 05 Aug 2012
Posts: 24

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

a laser is 140 cm wide, a sunfish about 120cm.

just how wide is your formula board Lee?
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