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PROOF: Obama IS the end of the free world
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mrgybe...I would not have used the article in Rolling Stone if I had not independently verified each of these five items. Verification is readily available on the sources listed in the article and Romney's own website.

So, here is the challenge...Prove Rolling Stone, Me and SWC wrong.

Most of these positions he is now claiming to hold are less conservative than his previous rhetoric. Shouldn't that be more disturbing to the conservatives than the liberals?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14470

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
1. "I don't have a $5 trillion tax cut." Romney flatly lied about the cost of his proposal to cut income-tax rates across the board by another 20 percent (undercutting even the low rates of the Bush tax cuts). Independent economists at the Tax Policy Center have shown that the price tag for those cuts is $360 billion in the first year, a cost that extrapolates to $5 trillion over a decade.

2. "I will not reduce the taxes paid by high-income Americans." Romney has claimed that he will pay for his tax cuts by closing a variety of loopholes and deductions. The factual problem? Romney hasn't named a single loophole he's willing to close; worse, there's no way to offset $5 trillion in tax cuts even if you get rid of the entire universe of deductions for the wealthy that Romney has not put off the table (like the carried interest loophole or the 15 percent capital gains rate.) The Tax Policy Center report concludes that Romney's proposal would create a "net tax cut for high-income tax payers and a net tax increase for lower- and or middle-income taxpayers." Moreover, some of Romney's tax cuts are micro-targeted at American dynasties, particularly his proposal to eliminate the estate tax, which would reduce his own sons' tax burden by tens of millions of dollars.

3. "We've got 23 million people out of work or [who have] stopped looking for work in this country." Romney is lying for effect. The nation's crisis of joblessness is bad, but not 23 million bad. The official figure is 12.5 million unemployed. An additional 2.6 million Americans have stopped looking for jobs. How does Romney gin up his eye-popping 23 million figure? He counts more than 8 million wage earners who hold part-time jobs as also being "out of work."

4. Obamacare "puts in place an unelected board that's going to tell people ultimately what kind of treatments they can have." Romney is reviving Sarah Palin's old death panels lie here. Obamacare does establish an Independent Payment Advisory Board to help constrain the growth of Medicare spending. The body has no authority to dictate the practices of the private insurance marketplace. And the law also makes explicit that this body is banned from rationing care or limiting medical benefits to seniors.

5. "Pre-existing conditions are covered under my plan." In the biggest whopper of the night, Romney suggested that his health care proposal would guarantee coverage to Americans with pre-existing conditions. This is just not true. Under Romney, if you have a pre-existing condition and have been unable to obtain insurance coverage or if you have had to drop coverage for more than 90 days because you lost your job or couldn't afford the premiums, you would be shit out of luck. Insurance companies could continue to discriminate and deny you coverage, as even Romney's top adviser conceded after the debate was over.

1. Deliberately deceptive parsing, and you know it. They're talking tax rates, he's talking tax revenues after the offsetting revenues, including loophole closures, MORE taxpayers via more people working, and a much stronger economy. Shame on the RS and on you.

2. See # 1 and add these facts:
a. Most people's eyes glaze over at wonky details in speeches. They want rhetoric in their speeches, with details left to proposals and websites.
b. Bringing up debatable ideas such as cutting taxpayer funding to PBS is risky in a timed debate format. Example: he didn't have time to explain that Sesame Street and thus Big Bird receive no taxpayer funds, that PBS is supported mostly by voluntary donors instead of taxpayers with guns to their heads, and that of course PBS is small fiscal potatoes but they add up and set a tone. Reciting details like that chews up debate clocks, bores nitwits, and sounds defensive.
c. The instant a pol gets specific, the other side demagogues the details and sidetracks the discourse. That's true even more so with Obama, because he has no personal achievements to run on and because it is his long-standing policy and process to defeat opponents by having them disqualified (e.g. law suits) or satanized (e.g., infidelity charges) rather than actually outperforming them.

3. Those 8M ARE out of work, in the sense that they are, for example, engineers and lawyers and teachers and skilled laborers flipping burgers for food -- in general, desperate people trying to keep their heads above water working beneath their capacity.

4. Facts dispute those claims. Example: some of my fellow cancer patients are already being denied expensive treatments providing limited life extension.

5. Sounds like Romney did misstate the degree of pre-ex conditions coverage of his plan, as admitted by his staff at http://tinyurl.com/9ryc32f . If thatg one was a lie, that's inexcusable. However, buying health care for a disease already in existence at normal rates is not insurance; it is welfare. You know that.
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2827

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
So, here is the challenge...Prove Rolling Stone, Me and SWC wrong.

How very Harry Reidian.............make an outrageous allegation and challenge the subject of the allegation to prove it's fallacious. SWC admires Harry the weasel............it's seems you also subscribe to the Reid methodology. Why is it so difficult for BHO worshipers to admit that he was beaten in the debate by a superior debater on the night? Maybe he will come back strong in the second and third debates...we'll see.....but this constant string of excuses for BHO's failings is quite extraordinary. He's simply not as great as you would all like to believe.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
So, here is the challenge...Prove Rolling Stone, Me and SWC wrong.

How very Harry Reidian.............make an outrageous allegation and challenge the subject of the allegation to prove it's fallacious. SWC admires Harry the weasel............it's seems you also subscribe to the Reid methodology. Why is it so difficult for BHO worshipers to admit that he was beaten in the debate by a superior debater on the night? Maybe he will come back strong in the second and third debates...we'll see.....but this constant string of excuses for BHO's failings is quite extraordinary. He's simply not as great as you would all like to believe.


I am not buying that! The issue really is that Romney is trying to move to the left to appeal to the independents. Problem for him is that he has been very critical of the ACA and now is trying to reinvent his position. He has also proposed tax rates vs spending vs deficit that do not add up. These are not outrageous allegations.

His spinning of the number of unemployed is just politics as usual. You may not have a problem with distortion of the data...I do. Obama does it too...but, we're talking about Romney here.

You're the smartest guy here (some say)...can you get Romney's economic plan to add up?
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 2827

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just watched Phil Solstyak's Kenya video on the main forum. Right now, I simply don't care about US politics. My mind is taking me back to a simpler time. I plan to enjoy that.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2407

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
My mind is taking me back to a simpler time. I plan to enjoy that.

I like that.

_________________
/w\
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4310

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 2:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://obamalies.net/list-of-lies

You guys have the audacity to say Mitt lied? Sure he did, but what about obama's lies.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14470

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Axelrod, David Plough, Bob Beckel, Kirsten Powers, Bil Maher, Michael Moore, Al Gore, the DNC, Chris Matthews, James Carville, every left wing network, every poll, Bo the White House dog, and every talking Democrat head in every media says Obama lost the debate buy at least a nautical mile. Some anonymous ideologue on the internet, who didn't even actually watch the debate, disagrees.

No WONDER Coboardhed addresses his comments to individuals rather than the group as a whole, just as Obama cherry picks the reporters and questions he wants to lecture to and on: Both get caught in the headlights by uncomfortable facts otherwise.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14470

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mrgybe wrote:
SWC admires Harry the weasel

Long before I even knew Raid was a Democrat he made my skin crawl as the epitome of why I hate politics and politicians. I can not understand why he isn't considered an embarrassment to and by his own party.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 2034

PostPosted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Boggsman. I also agree with Mrgybe...Politics is getting tiring. Time to vote early, load up the gear, and hit the road. Smile
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