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PROOF: Obama IS the end of the free world
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 7456
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW30. Most of the poor are not well educated. If you have a 4 -year college degree the unemployment rate is 4.4%. If you are a sharp cat with an engineering degree, in tech or oil and gas, you are printing money. We just had the biggest , most bubblicious asset bubble of all time, and as it contunues to pop, the people most affected , will contune to suffer unless they re-invent themselves. I do not blame Obama for the lack of recovery, nor do I blame Bush for the housing bubble.
BTW- your source IBD, run by Mr O'Neil, is one of the most partisan rags around, I've been reading it for 20 years for the stock tables.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19252

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
I think both sides could benefit from reading "How To Win Friends And Influence People".

I read it long ago. It's wasted on these people, so I don't apply it here.
Obama should be so astute with radical Islam.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 7456
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
stevenbard wrote:
I think both sides could benefit from reading "How To Win Friends And Influence People".

I read it long ago. It's wasted on these people, so I don't apply it here.
Obama should be so astute with radical Islam.

It's obvioulsy worked wonders for you , ISO.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12983
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

NW--I got this from my whacko evangelical brother, it is not news, or is it analysis because it is hopelessly spun. I would like you to think about this quote, and :

Quote:
These results are highly unusual in an economic recovery, which typically produces income gains across the board. During the eight-year Reagan boom, for example, incomes at the bottom climbed 14%, while those in the middle climbed 13%, and those at the top 22%.

What's more, despite Obama's promise that he would reduce income inequality, it's increased each year he's been in office, reaching an all-time high after remaining flat during the Bush years.


The loss in average income is accurate--but the cause is the collapse of the housing bubble, which was reflected in the unrealistic stock values--$10 trillion disappeared. Boggsy is right, neither Bush nor Obama were responsible for this, the deregulation was drafted by Republican Gramm and signed by Clinton. (Bush's "regulators" ignored fraud and refused to use what little power they had to minimize the bubble, but that didn't cause it, it just made it worse.) I think we had two choices: 1) let the banks fail, housing prices plummet even worse than they did, and let the bankruptcy courts sort it out or 2) try to cushion the fall with bank bailouts (TARP) that lengthened the time it took for market correction, but limited the damage to other sectors of the economy.

The country, in a proposal made by Bush and strengthened by Elizabeth Warren, chose the latter path. Warren, Obama's team, and Congress, made TARP far more fiscally sound and economically viable than what Bush proposed. But $10 trillion is a huge loss for the economy to absorb when it is not growing. What worries the Rep's now is that there are signs of recovery, and as you know, housing drives the construction industry and much of the non-white collar wealth accumulation by working folks.

The irony in the posture of this poster, and your posting it, is the idea that Obama should have increased income equity in a shrinking market. Most hard core right wingers would have let the banks fail, which would have further increased economic inequity as hedge funders and the bankrupcy sharks made out. And the right blocked a more robust stimulus in construction for infrastructure. So the right's policies would have made it even worse.

The only time you guys like government at all is when you can bash Obama for not fixing everything--while you dug in your heels behind the golf cart.
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 7456
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A delicious slice of irony for me is the state of Ohio. Obama is up by as many as 9 points in Ohio, a state NO Republican has ever lost while winning the presidency. The Republican Governor, John Kasich is taking his victory lap around the state as unemployment drops to 6%...but behind the scenes, the Romney camp is telling him to tamp down all the good news. shhhhh , were trying to win an election, no good news please Mr Governor.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno,
In your life outside digital posts, do you chat for long with folks who insult you or someone with every remark?
Each new voice here treats Mike with respect. His responses are offensive, which is why he posts here. If he spoke to folks in that way in a bar in Hawaii his car wouldn't have a windshield.
My point was -If his statements had any value, that is dimished by all the nastiness.
Fink is a smart guy. He can choose to be civil, and debate the issues with us in a way that informs and entertains as you do. I and others try to encourage that.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2276
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Ignore the facts and dump on Iso, that will lead us all to using our boards as fishing craft rather than recreation when everything goes down the crapper.

Can't you guys get a little "sticks and stones" backbone and ignore the insults and just ingest some of the material for what it's worth? But we all know that's not really the issue. When he does post something that potentially has some merit, rather than discuss the issue, you just deflect to his insults and avoid the debate.

Entertainment value - high
Practical value - low


Techno, I stand accused and admit my sin. That said, Mike and I have been discussing politics online for about 13 years, first on recdot and now here. At first it was fairly civil, and then he decided to start tossing barbs when others began challenging his facts. There is a reason he got the moniker Mr. Ficktion. We're all entitled to factual errors and to correct our arguments or otherwise defer. Then we get to pocket a credit for the next error. That's the unspoken arrangement, but Mike refused to back down over his claim that Clinton's health initiative would criminalize private healthcare. I went directly to the bill and posted it. Mike refused to acknowledge that it didn't say what it clearly said and alienated several dozen participants. He bolted for iW after getting fed up with the static he was creating and receiving on recdot. He admitted that he didn't pay attention to politics or vote until 2000, I think, so those of us who paid more attention prior gave him a pass until it became futile. Now, his verbiage speaks for itself. He's not inclined to add much to the conversation, and quoting the Weekly World News as an actual source of objective reporting does his reputation little favor.

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9474

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"These results are highly unusual in an economic recovery, which typically produces income gains across the board. During the eight-year Reagan boom, for example, incomes at the bottom climbed 14%, while those in the middle climbed 13%, and those at the top 22%."


As I recollect, the inflation that occurred during the Reagan years was huge. I bought a new car in 1982 and the interest rate from my credit union was 17%. It's no surprise that incomes rose during that period, but one has to ask whether they were actually getting ahead. The idea of cherry picking facts like these in the absence of reality is specious at best.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3598

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said the same as you techno in my early posts defending mike.
He responded by researching my personal life and threatening to have me fired by my boss at the school.
He is so poor at research that he missed the fact that I own the school.
The staff read the posts for themselves and one of them asked why I would even chat with someone so far gone.
Mikes next move was to post the personal info of my principal and one of my students., so that wackos could harass them to punish me.
If they had been in the States, mike would have landed in court.
Will you be OK when he does to one of your kids and staff?
Or will you drop by the Gorge and punch him in the mouth?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12983
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno--essentially the same story as KC, about the same time. Mike Fick published my name and location in a manner in which to invite physical attacks, after multiple reponses that were not merely insulting but threatened violence. I was born in Richland, the town where Mike currently lives, and I am too stubborn and stupid to be intimidated by most bullying. I would much rather have a substantive discussion, and hear from conservatives posting reasoned analysis. But I've probably posted as many insightful observations by George Will and David Brooks as the conservatives--they're more in the Karl Rove school.
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