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geohaye



Joined: 03 Apr 2000
Posts: 1328

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

+1 for the Honda Odyssey. Like their "edgy" commercials from this summer featuring the black Odyssey and the stereo blaring Judas Priest's famous song "Breaking The Law". Great song, and if that was the song they used, humorous choice for a car commercial. Shocked
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13866

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

But in general, give me a cargo van for windsurfing. These modern foo-foo, soccer-mom, 17-cup-holding, schmaltzy family vans and SUVs waste tens of cubic feet of storage volume compared to bare-metal-walls cargo vans, not even counting the space taken up by folded seats. Overall I'd guesstimate something like 50 cu ft of otherwise usable volume wasted -- if you don't need 5-7 seats at times -- on crap you don't need if you never carry more than two people.

"Oh, but it's no longer insulated against road noise or hot weather". Sure it is; quivers of boards, sails, and wetsuits soak up far more noise and heat than the matted pubic hair car-makers insulate these things with. And my Odyssey was really noisy until we paid a shop to remove the interior panels and glue in acoustic panels to all the exterior sheet metal; now it's merely noisy.

"But now where do you put your soda pop?" In my stomach.

"What about appearance? Now all the pretty, molded, colored plastic crap is gone." How do you know? The walls and floor are hidden behind WSing gear and a bed. Besides, what's more important ... appearances or STUFF?

"What about resale value?" What about it? A) a cargo van is much cheaper to begin with, and B) this isn't an investment; it's a vital tool. It costs what it cocts.

"Who wants a plumber's truck dashboard?" So choose the high-end interior package.

"But I found a great deal on a used (not gonna say it)-wagon with all the pretty, molded, colored plastic crap already in it". That's what crowbars are for; get to work. Actually, most interior crap just pulls away these days to make service easy; the rest yields to screwdrivers (foo-foo) or wrenches (seats).

I'll never forget the first time I looked into a modern SUV, a 2002 Chevy Tahoe. GREAT, I thought; a low van ... until I peered inside and thought I had stuck my head into the glove box by mistake. My GOD what a bunch of totally wasted interior volume -- it had to be 60-70 cu ft (the volume of 6 to 8 BOARDS) wasted -- just for looks + three cupholders for each potential occupant. (I don't remember my ever using a cupholder; I drink my frigging pop, not carry it around.)

Ya wanna haul a big family now and then? Buy a minivan. You buyin' a WSing hauler? Then buy something made to haul; by the time you stuff it full of STUFF you can't see the difference anyway, and you'll have more STUFF when you need it.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

obvious you have never seen stow and go seats, as they recess into the floor and do not take up any room.

if the vehicle does not have stow and go , then remove the seats entirely.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13866

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My Odyssey's and your T&C's seats fold down into the floor just fine, but they still take up room because the floor is raised to accommodate them. We don't get something for nothing.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my 03 did not have stow and go, the current 06 does, no difference in room

only thing I notice is spare tire is forward now between the front seats underneath.

the exhaust pipe is visible under the passenger side

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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1928
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As aways, Mike sees things in black and white. Just because the seat bin is 14" deep doesn't mean the van now has a floor 14" higher. Did he ever stop to think that by changing suspension layout and overall floor pan design car makers can find a happy medium or even improve floor to roof distance by raising the roof? It happens all the time. Of course, a back seat that isn't mounted directly to the floor forcing passengers to gaze into the backs of the front seats is foo-foo.

Mike also doesn't have kids or a job, so he tends to miss compromises familiar to others -or he just blasts them with superlatives.

FWIW, members of my extended family have had four minivans in the last few years. The most current maxed out Odyssey, the earlier version and my wife's 2012 Mazda 5 and its predecessor from 2009.

Those vans swallow huge amounts of gear. The Honda's seats can be removed or dropped into the floor for a lot of room and replaced without huge effort. I fit six boards and and about ten complete rigs in one.

The Mazda is smaller but still hauls a ton with the seats put down to make a dead flat floor. Move the front passenger seat forward, recline and remove head support and it will fit most shortboards.

For people who want something more than a windsurfing vehicle, a mini van is a nice compromise without the need to store gear on the roof in most cases. Next step up is a full size van and then on to the Sprint.

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Last edited by DanWeiss on Mon Oct 01, 2012 8:26 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13866

PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
my 03 did not have stow and go, the current 06 does, no difference in room

No matter how ya folds 'em, seats still occupy space; we can't deny physics. Two of my vans were identical except that one was the cargo version, the other the foo foo version. Their driver and shotgun "cockpits" were identical; behind those buckets the cargo version swallowed tens of cubic feet more STUFF, not even counting the seats. All I'm trying to do is alert readers looking for a dedicated WSing van that they have other options besides brand names to consider, that they don't have to accept unneeded foo foo with the vehicle class.

I've been sailing out of my Outback this summer because our weather pattern has offered very few overnight trips. Even with its foo-foo interior and all the seats intact, I still carry three boards, several complete rigs, and all the accoutrement inside. But for a dedicated vehicle, where one needs a bed and a way to fix meals ... or if I guess wrong on the sail sizes I need ... it wouldn't cut it.
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carl



Joined: 25 Feb 1997
Posts: 2481
Location: SF bay area

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
But in general, give me a cargo van for windsurfing. These modern foo-foo, soccer-mom, 17-cup-holding, schmaltzy family vans and SUVs waste tens of cubic feet of storage volume compared to bare-metal-walls cargo vans, not even counting the space taken up by folded seats. Overall I'd guesstimate something like 50 cu ft of otherwise usable volume wasted -- if you don't need 5-7 seats at times -- on crap you don't need if you never carry more than two people.

"Oh, but it's no longer insulated against road noise or hot weather". Sure it is; quivers of boards, sails, and wetsuits soak up far more noise and heat than the matted pubic hair car-makers insulate these things with. And my Odyssey was really noisy until we paid a shop to remove the interior panels and glue in acoustic panels to all the exterior sheet metal; now it's merely noisy.

"But now where do you put your soda pop?" In my stomach.

"What about appearance? Now all the pretty, molded, colored plastic crap is gone." How do you know? The walls and floor are hidden behind WSing gear and a bed. Besides, what's more important ... appearances or STUFF?

"What about resale value?" What about it? A) a cargo van is much cheaper to begin with, and B) this isn't an investment; it's a vital tool. It costs what it cocts.

"Who wants a plumber's truck dashboard?" So choose the high-end interior package.

"But I found a great deal on a used (not gonna say it)-wagon with all the pretty, molded, colored plastic crap already in it". That's what crowbars are for; get to work. Actually, most interior crap just pulls away these days to make service easy; the rest yields to screwdrivers (foo-foo) or wrenches (seats).

I'll never forget the first time I looked into a modern SUV, a 2002 Chevy Tahoe. GREAT, I thought; a low van ... until I peered inside and thought I had stuck my head into the glove box by mistake. My GOD what a bunch of totally wasted interior volume -- it had to be 60-70 cu ft (the volume of 6 to 8 BOARDS) wasted -- just for looks + three cupholders for each potential occupant. (I don't remember my ever using a cupholder; I drink my frigging pop, not carry it around.)

Ya wanna haul a big family now and then? Buy a minivan. You buyin' a WSing hauler? Then buy something made to haul; by the time you stuff it full of STUFF you can't see the difference anyway, and you'll have more STUFF when you need it.


Mike, you forgot to mention a few important points that swayed my decision:

1) Those big cargo vans suck alot moe gas compared to a minivan, makes a big difference these days of $4+ per gal. if you drive any distance.
2) A minivan drives/rides like a nice car and a big cargo van drives/rides more like a bus/dump truck.
3) Where to park that beast?, it won't fit in the garage and it looks like you always have plumbing problems if parked in front of the house.
4) A cargo van can't be used for anything but cargo,, it can't haul people.
Half the year, it will just be sitting collecting tree sap.

A minivan already carries 3-4 boards inside (without removing the cup holders), how many more boards do you need?
Measure them up, stow and go or middle seats removed, the actual cargo volume is almost the same for the Odyssey, Sienna, VW Routan and Grand Caravan.
Nissan did screw up the new Quest, the load floor is much higher to accomodate all the seats.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13866

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not all cargo vans are big Econolines, and seating options are very extensive.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 3056
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

its such a waste of time trying to rationalize with some of these brain dead people,

just the difference in MPH, 16--18 VS 22 --26 is remarkable in a 2000K trip and

is enough to justify a mini van instead. Unless you are going to live in it,

then irregardless you need something bigger.

Carl, you failed to mention the Chrysler Town & Country , close to the same , well almost as the Dodge products, and the VW is a Chrysler clone.

My T &C holds 6 boards inside, mostly small, and its my option how many I need !!

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