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Are you better off now...?
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 12:43 pm    Post subject: Are you better off now...? Reply with quote

Four years ago, my savings had shrunk 50%+ in a month, my business didn't do well as my customers were laying off and could not finance anything.

Since 2009, I have doubled the number of my co-workers, I've got my savings back and more.

The only thing that's worse now, as far as I am personally concerned, is that there are no more northeasters with decent ground swell around here. I blame Obama.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4338

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Notwithstanding the above, average household income is down almost $5000 in four years, workforce participation is at it's lowest level since Carter, workforce participation is lowest in history for men. Median net worth dropped from $126400 in 2007 to $77300 in 2010 and continues to fall. Structural unemployment for those over 50and under 25 is incredible.

And from a positive standpoint Obama should be proud of his endorsements from Putin, Akmadinijad, and Hugo Chavez. Did I mention the 57,000 factories that have closed?

PS, any fool could have saved the auto industry with billions in free taxpayer money. I could save a synagogue in downtown Tehran with enough money...
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14611

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It doesn't prove cause and effect, but Factcheck.org agrees that "Romney’s statistic is accurate. It’s true, according to data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics, that between January 2009, when Obama took office, and March 2012, there has been a net decline of 740,000 jobs for both men and women, and that among women there has been a net loss of 683,000 jobs. The Romney campaign did the math and calculated that 92.3 percent of the jobs lost under Obama were lost by women."
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rigitrite



Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 324
Location: Kansas City

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No question: VASTLY better off now than four years ago, or eight years ago for that matter.
How long did it take for us to recover from the great depression? Seeing as we still weren't out of it by the end of 1941, that's 11 or 12 years depending.
Then, of course, we had WWII intervene to kick us out of endless economic doldrums; an exercise I don't think any of us would like to repeat.
Things seem to be working, albeit slowly.

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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1398

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
Notwithstanding the above, average household income is down almost $5000 in four years, workforce participation is at it's lowest level since Carter, workforce participation is lowest in history for men. Median net worth dropped from $126400 in 2007 to $77300 in 2010 and continues to fall. Structural unemployment for those over 50and under 25 is incredible.

And from a positive standpoint Obama should be proud of his endorsements from Putin, Akmadinijad, and Hugo Chavez. Did I mention the 57,000 factories that have closed?

PS, any fool could have saved the auto industry with billions in free taxpayer money. I could save a synagogue in downtown Tehran with enough money...


All these points have been argued (and debunked) before. My question is are YOU better off? A little empirical data, not copy-and-paste jobs form drudge, please.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5568

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Net decline is probably true--but at what was the monthly rate when the meltdown was fresh. Several things to think about:

1. A consumer economy is not going to lead a recovery if 10% or so of the people are unemployed. 70% of the historic economy is based on consumer spending.

2. The loss of wealth nearly overnight due to the collapse of the financial/housing bubble was $10 trillion. This is approximately twice the losses from the dot-com bubble.

3. Americans have de-leveraged in a big way from their privately held debt. While not a bad thing, it has led to a further contraction in consumer spending.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14611

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Vastly better off? Man, what are you reading? I know of not one metric that shows improvement over the past 4 years. The vast majority of measures, from just about every professional financial source I can Google or see/hear in the media, show HUGELY worse numbers in virtually every economic performance category since Jan 2009. Obama's "The middle class is doing just fine" and his sycophants' subjective parroting of same is unadulterated rhetoric 180 degrees out of line with thousands of pages of numerical facts from the U.S. Government itself plus tens of thousands more from American and global financial institutions.

In Bush's last year, we were ranked by the World Economic Forum as #1 in global competitiveness .
We just dropped to #7.

Moody's downgrade.

Fewer people employed now despite big population increase.

Annual salries reduced by $5,000.

Half the damned country on some form of welfare initially intended to save the very worst of situations ... not people who are WAY better off than the average European.

A government so GD stupid it is paying investors cash because their investments (homes) lost value and wants to pay women to pursue their hobbies (a la Sandra Fluke).

Sixteen Trillion Dollars in debt.

$16,000,000,000,000! That adds >$200,000 to your mortgage if you have a wife and two kids ... while some of your taxes go to bail out 7-figure mortgages of rich people who CHOOSE NOT TO sell their stocks to pay that mortgage (source: live interview by SYMPATHETIC news anchor on network TV.)

Socialized medicine (re the dictionary definition), which we know does not work long.

The list goes on for hundreds of pages, with almost nothing on the positive side of the ledger


Last edited by isobars on Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:47 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5568

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking point, $16 trillion. Mouthed by the witch last night. Suppose anyone on the right knows the genesis of the debt?
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3538

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Things were good under Clinton, contracted starting two years into Bush, and is only coming back for me in the last year.
I don't think the reason has much to do with any of these guys.
GOP Congress big spending with GOP Congress big tax cuts put the part of the economy I live in into a tailspin.
The part I live in is recovering slowly and will likely continue no matter which guy is in office, as long as the worthless GOP leadership doesn't gain control of Congress again.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2763

PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2012 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
...any fool could have saved the auto industry with billions in free taxpayer money...

Yes, Romney said he would have done that, even though he said he wouldn't do that.
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