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windsurfing related injuries
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ronm41



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:
The 24-year life expectancy came from plugging my relevant data (minus the cancer) into actuarial sites designed just for that purpose.

But back to reality ... hundreds of pages of notes condensed from the 300 relevant PubMed studies I read give me these median expectations:
1. 4 more years to mets, then
2. 2-3 years more until death.
3. Chemo does more harm than good for prostate cancer.
4. Salvage radiation treatment offers me .18 likelihood of cure and >.75 likelihood of prompt and permanent disabling side effects, particularly since I'm already well down the side effect path.

My uro onc was a principle in the foremost study on 1, 2, and 4, and concurred after I plugged my clinical data into its math and statistics. A renown rad onc confirmed my #4 conclusion in an hour-long one-on-one consult.

Statistically, I'm screwed either way, and had to base my subsequent treatment on statistics, clinical evidence, and the sign I recently posted on my wall: "It's not the number of breaths we take, but the number of times our breath is taken away."

Now, is it any wonder I whine when BAFFERS Bogart the swell?

Beyond all that, I hope you're right. Exercise does fight cancer, and I've taken to heart the very small contribution diet makes in cancer.


Gee but IMO after having Metastasis Cancer twice Stats are one thing and ONC's are masters of stats as what else can they talk about. Your a tough, ornery and stubborn guy and most certainly a fighter so whatever the odds are the stats may not be in your favor but I would bet that you will finish on the good side of the stats as well. My stats and odds with my latest go around is 75% chance of making to five years. I never did try to figure out how much time I lost due to cancer destruction and treatment tho. I have been threw 7 mos heavy chemo and 35 intensive radiation sessions. Plus three major surgeries in the last 6 years. Feel good right now, a little light but fitness is coming back, being realistic I will be happy to make it to 75 and that isn't that far off. Be nice if the end wasn't real painful. Very Happy
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
I guess iso's spread outside the prostate, which complicates the issue greatly.

Yes, thanks to my local VA doc who ignored clanging PSA bells for four years until my death warrant was signed.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ronm41 wrote:
I would bet that you will finish on the good side of the stats as well. My stats and odds with my latest go around is 75% chance of making to five years. I never did try to figure out how much time I lost due to cancer destruction and treatment tho. I have been threw 7 mos heavy chemo and 35 intensive radiation sessions. Plus three major surgeries in the last 6 years. Feel good right now, a little light but fitness is coming back, being realistic I will be happy to make it to 75 and that isn't that far off. Be nice if the end wasn't real painful. Very Happy

I've won and lost some statistical crapshoots, so which way this one falls nobody knows. So far, mine is years behind the stages you've been through. I hear many stories like yours in my cancer support group, but all I can do is cringe -- I surely can't credibly empathize because I haven't been there -- and go windsurfing.
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ronm41



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:
ronm41 wrote:
I would bet that you will finish on the good side of the stats as well. My stats and odds with my latest go around is 75% chance of making to five years. I never did try to figure out how much time I lost due to cancer destruction and treatment tho. I have been threw 7 mos heavy chemo and 35 intensive radiation sessions. Plus three major surgeries in the last 6 years. Feel good right now, a little light but fitness is coming back, being realistic I will be happy to make it to 75 and that isn't that far off. Be nice if the end wasn't real painful. Very Happy

I've won and lost some statistical crapshoots, so which way this one falls nobody knows. So far, mine is years behind the stages you've been through. I hear many stories like yours in my cancer support group, but all I can do is cringe -- I surely can't credibly empathize because I haven't been there -- and go windsurfing.


I think I will take what I have over what you got. My treatment is pretty much over. So if I remain clean then it is over with. My evidence is clean margins after surgery, then lots of radiation to clean tissue in surrounding areas. That ended 6-1 so if the tumors are gone and don't come back then I am cured. My previous cancer is beyond five years with no evidence of return. But it is obvious that cancer likes me and in my dna so there is a probability of a next time probably totally different than what I have had. As far as my surgeries, not too bad and healed quickly there was a few complications like a staph infection(not mersa) and having to have a feeding tube for three weeks. Chemo was terrible and painful but didn't compare to throat and neck radiation for weeks just taking a sip of water would bring tears to my eyes. Nuff about cancer, Washoe right now is blowing 22 ave and it is five minutes away, so on my way...........
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2147

PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 5:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actual windsurf injury....
Sept '07, going barefoot instead of normal booties, resized straps, landed a jump and foot slipped in, causing the straps to let go the velcro, getting bigger while foot still slides in farther.
Resultant sprained and inward twisted ankle going on it's 5th season, still cannot run, cannot put full weight on it. Can just soft jog, slowly, with no bouncing up and down.
That would qualify as a significant windsurfing injury.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1362

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off topic with the cancer thing, but since many/most of us on this forum are "old farts", it just may help someone stay on the water a few more years if they keep in tune with their bodies while working closely with a competent Dr.

Regarding the prostate thing, there are lots of false positives with the PSA test and many lead to biopsies that show nothing. And if there is cancer, most are slow growing and may not progress fast enough to kill you. This is why there is a push to reduce PSA testing to much later in life.

On the other hand, do you want to play the odds, or be sure that prostate cancer won't kill you?

If you get to the point where you have a biopsy, ask for sedation, you won't be sorry. If you want details, look it up. If the test is negative, then peace of mind will justify the experience.
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xander.arch



Joined: 23 Apr 2009
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zirtaeb - Unfortunately I feel the pain of your ankle injury as I also suffered a really bad sprain from what sounds like a similar fall learning freestyle. It sounds like you may have similar damage so I'll tell you my story....

Per doctor's orders I tried to let it heal naturally with rest and rehab, but everytime I thought it was better I would tweak it again which would keep me off the water and gimping around for a couple months. After finally getting it checked out by a decent doctor I got a proper MRI and learned that I had completely torn my ATFL and CFL ligaments.

The short story is that unless I wanted to live the lifestyle of a 70 year old at 40 surgery would be the only option. So I went under the knife for a modified brostrom repair which more or less involves repairing / replacing the ligaments with titanium fiber wire. I am about 2 years out of surgery now and I can not tell you how happy I am with the results. It has taken a while to feel balanced and strong again, but the ankle is perfectly stable with about 95% of the range of motion as before. I am sailing hard on it and have not been able to reinjure it no matter how hard I try. I feel a slight difference between my good ankle and my bad ankle, but I am not at all limited by the ankle now! I do not however dare to try any more horizontally rotating freestyle moves.

I interviewed 8 different surgeons before committing to the one I chose. I'm in the sf bay area so If you are here PM me and I'll be happy to provide any insight if you are looking for a bay area doc. I found some great ones and some not so great ones.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2147

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 12:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the news, XanderArch.
I don't have to worry quite as much, since I don't have any kind of health insurance, am 63, still bike fine, windsurf flat waters OK (but with debilitating pain afterwards), play doubles in tennis good enough, but barely snowboard, ski, and can't surf overhead waves anymore.
The atrophy of the left calf is something to behold, almost as bad as when I was in a cast for 13 months.
But it's fine, I'm not setting records in marathons at my age, and most of what I like to do is skill sports, not running whatsoever.
Thanks.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5476

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 2:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeD, just keep in mind that in less than 2 years you are eligible for Medicare. At that time you could get a proper prognosis of your problem, to include corrective surgery if needed at little cost to you.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2147

PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks....
I figure I've got a few years left to have fun, then it doesn't matter.
Enjoying the light wind Berkeley experience, even though half the days I don't sail longer than 15 minutes, because I don't rig my 7+ sails when I get there at around 4.
Figure if everything was fine, I'd be youngstering it at TI and Crissy most days, spending triple the gas money, and complaining about not being able to keep up with the ....youngsters.
It's still a good life when you can work a couple hours a day, get to do the sport you like hopefully that long, and kill some time reading and relaxing.....which is what retirement is supposed to be all about.
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