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isobras
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439
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 Posted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 7:26 pm Post subject: |
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| RocRobster wrote: | | You have no idea of my beliefs |
That's OK. They often write 'em for us. |
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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:04 am Post subject: |
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Roc. "Jesus was talking to HIS people" WRONG! His message was for ALL of mankind. Either that, or Paul and his apostles completely misunderstood him!
Mac is accused that he "loudly stated that you are NOT one of his people". That is an arrogant charge for you to make, and completely wrong. Christ died on the cross for ALL of mankind, not just for you or his chosen people! (Or, yet again, his disciples completely misundersatood his message.)
I'm sorry Roc, but your preaching attempts come across in a similar way to the intolerant assertions of many of todays religious sect crusaders. i.e. They, and they alone know the truth, and are the chosen ones of Christ, so anyone not of THEIR persuasion is doomed to hell...blah blah blah!
You may accuse me of taking your quotes out of context, and deliberately twisting your meaning. You would be partly correct but, it is the way that insidious religious sects brainwash people! (You know... just give me 5 minutes of your time, and read this.....) |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:09 am Post subject: |
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windoggie,
I don't think conservatives have taken Obama's speech out of context. That's the liberal defense, but his message was clear to me.
You can't do it without government assistance! And if you do succeed and think you were the one that built it, you would be wrong.
It make total sense because that is what Obama believes. He wants everyone to be dependent on government intervention, regulation or assistance, at least that is what I believe. |
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RocRobster
Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:21 am Post subject: |
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| GURGLETROUSERS wrote: | | You may accuse me of taking your quotes out of context, and deliberately twisting your meaning. You would be partly correct but, |
no response necessary.
However GT, I wan't preaching nor did I interject religion - that was macs doing. so berate him if you want to be fair... oh that's right, not what you want. (not taken out of context) |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Rocky start--you may want to temper your hubris about who is, or is not, among god's chosen--particularly if you believe in a vengeful god. It is more than a little presumptuous to decide that you are among the chosen--or that I am not.
I noticed the fast pass on the concerns raised about the impact on the poor. Substance is not one of the strengths of the "conservatives" on this forum. |
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LHDR
Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 528
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | windoggie,
I don't think conservatives have taken Obama's speech out of context. That's the liberal defense, but his message was clear to me.
You can't do it without government assistance! And if you do succeed and think you were the one that built it, you would be wrong.
It make total sense because that is what Obama believes. He wants everyone to be dependent on government intervention, regulation or assistance, at least that is what I believe. |
It is unfortunate to see that even well-meaning people like Techno can get manipulated this way. I am curious, when you read this article by Nick Kristof on the issue, is there anything in there that you would disagree with?
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/29/opinion/kristof-the-secret-weapon-all-of-us.html?hp
For example, here is the (simple and obvious?) point Obama was trying to make:
"Obama’s point about our shared undertaking was made last year, more eloquently, by Elizabeth Warren, the Massachusetts Democrat running for Senate:
“There is nobody in this country who got rich on his own — nobody!” she said. “You built a factory out there? Good for you. But I want to be clear: You moved your goods to market on the roads the rest of us paid for; you hired workers the rest of us paid to educate; you all were safe in your factory because of police forces and fire forces that the rest of us paid for. ...
“You built a factory, and it turned into something terrific or a great idea? God bless. Keep a big hunk of it. But part of the underlying social contract is, you take a hunk of that and pay forward for the next kid who comes along.”
In short, taxes don’t just smother. They can also fuel growth — when they’re invested in highways or the Internet, in colleges or early childhood education. They can create opportunities, as they did for Sher Valenzuela [a small business person who spoke at the RNC]." |
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isobras
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:49 am Post subject: |
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That's like saying Steve Jobs couldn't have built Apple if his mother hadn't whelped and fed him. The fallacy in that argument is that while the planet's other 7 billion people were also whelped and fed, not one them built an empire of comparable net worth. Neither his mother nor the government can take credit for Apple merely because they laid the most generic foundation of heartbeat, milk, and roads. Jobs, not his mother and sure as hell not the government, built Apple.
Besides, although that usual stupid argument lists only the government's minuscule contribution, it completely and deliberately omits and conceals the incredible barriers the government, even before Obama, erects around entrepreneurs. Ask any CEO (besides a few favored frat boys like the heads of GE, Solyndra, etc.) whether the government's net contribution to their success is positive or negative. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7850
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:54 am Post subject: |
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We all know about the roads and bridges, and all the other things taxes pay for. Last time I checked every business owner has paid taxes his or her entire working life. Someone else did not build it , WE ALL BUILT IT!!!!!
But please keep making this idiotic point , its doing wonders for the conservative movement. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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LHDR said:
| Quote: | | It is unfortunate to see that even well-meaning people like Techno can get manipulated this way. I am curious, when you read this article by Nick Kristof on the issue, is there anything in there that you would disagree with? |
No one but Obama really know his intention in the speech, but there are way too many socialist tendencies, mentors, relationships that Obama is connected to for conservatives to believe anything else.
If anyone is being manipulated, it's those that support Obama. Either you are naive as Hell or you support his socialist agenda, but won't acknowledge it. The writing is on the wall (although much has been hidden because of the left wing media), so just believe what you wish.
Essentially, none of this matters since conservatives will never vote Democrat, at least not for the foreseeable future.
Haven't read the Kristof article yet, but will. |
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isobras
Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439
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| Posted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | | If anyone is being manipulated, it's those that support Obama. Either you are naive as Hell or you support his socialist agenda, but won't acknowledge it. |
Therein lies the crux of this forum's past 5 years of political posts. Fortunately, even the Obamastream media is starting to admit that. The man that seconded
Obama's nomination four years ago has changed his tune and loyalties 180.000 degrees now that the light of day has revealed the real Obama and his party. |
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