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A rude ending to the Armstrong myth
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2357

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
lets face it, the frogs could not stand the fact that an American could win their little race 7 times.

Matty.......... can you spell "bigot"? No? How about "ugly American"?

Your hypocrisy is hilarious Laughing Laughing Laughing and embarrassing. Embarassed Embarassed Embarassed
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mat-ty



Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 1033

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pueno , I can spell asshole, It's PUENO , also means cranky old liberal.
What's your problem, was it the term frog you found so offensive, are you French? I have French blood, have been to France several times , went to Chamonix for my honeymoon.Love the French, their culture ,food, almost everything , except their cars and politics.
Are you saying I am completely wrong? You must think Rodger Clemens was the only guy in BB using steroids, it's called a witch hunt .


Last edited by mat-ty on Sun Aug 26, 2012 11:56 am; edited 1 time in total
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2357

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mat-ty wrote:
Pueno , I can spell asshole, It's PUENO , also means cranky old liberal.
What's your problem, was it the term frog you found so offensive, are you French? I have French blood, have been to France several times , went to Chamonix for my honeymoon.Love the French, their culture ,food, almost everything , except their cars and politics.
Are you saying I am completely wrong? You must think Rodger Clemens was the only guy in BB using steroids, it's called a which hunt .

For a bigot, you sure are thin-skinned! And funny!

Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing

So, Matty, can Massachusetts depend on your vote for Obama? Laughing Laughing Laughing
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1333
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From TMZ
~~~~~~~~~~~~

Laird Hamilton
It's Okay
If Lance Armstrong Cheated exclusive

Surfing legend Laird Hamilton thinks it's BS that Lance Armstrong got stripped of his Tour de France titles, but not because he thinks doping is wrong ... but because everyone was doing it.

Hamilton took the unusual position when our our photog bumped into him yesterday in Malibu ... saying he believes that if everyone is cheating in a sport, then it's "still an even playing field, it's still the best guy wins."

Hamilton also said he thinks the public coming down on athletes who are found to be cheating isn't right, saying, "I think it's a little bit of hypocrisy that we think these athletes are sterile people that are eating dry toast and then they're performing at these high levels. Rocket ships need rocket fuel to go to space. Athletes need the fuel they need to do what they need to do and let's be realistic about that."

The U.S. Anti-Doping Agency hit Armstrong with a lifetime ban yesterday and stripped him of his seven Tour de France titles after concluding he used performance-enhancing drugs. Armstrong maintains his innocence. .


Read more: http://www.tmz.com#ixzz24aW505Ga
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1333
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This makes me think of Red Bull, you know, that stuff that gives you a boost.
They sponsor sports all over the place, I see Red Bull helmets on competitors all over the winter olympics for instance.
Would Red Bull be considered a performance enhancer? Where do they draw the line?
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 4:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laird Hamilton just fell off his pedestal, IMO. What letter of the word, "cheating" does he, or Armstrong, fail to understand? Laird, and now Armstrong if he really was playing the "I'm innocent until they catch me" game, just joined my list of people I wouldn't hire to manage a company picnic. People with that attitude, even if they have 99th percentile job skills, foment and invite trouble. If they can't be trusted to play by rules they promised to observe, how are they any different in principle, though obviously not in scope, from Kenneth Lay or Bernie Madoff? IOW, are Lay and Madoff merely two more cheating jocks who fell into bigger opportunities? Why should cheating sports stars get a pass just because they aren't CEOs?

When I was elected (without even knowing I was being considered) to chair a state-wide racing commission, my job included deciding the outcome of any competitive event rule disputes. Even when I had to rule against friends or my own racing club, the job was fairly easy as long as I kept reminding myself of one thing: in ruling against a person or club who broke a rule, I'm protecting everyone who came in 2nd or 143rd because they raced by the rules everyone signed but the guy standing in front of me cheated. (I was re-elected twice, until the military transferred me to another state.) A win by cheating is not a victory in any competition I can think of, and should be punished beyond nullification of the alleged victory. What else does "cheating" mean?

Laird and Lance are still fantastic athletes, but neither, apparently, is the man he pretends to be. I'd love to know what Karnazes, or Nyad, or any clean Olympic athlete thinks of this "screw my competition, screw my word, win at any cost" attitude. Hell, I don't even support cutting another racer off. I always gave them room to race so we knew who the faster racer was. The only time another desert racer cut me off, I instinctively put my shoulder and my throttle into the guy and mowed his ass out of the way. If the rules prohibited that, I never found about about it.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1333
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:

Laird and Lance are still fantastic athletes, but neither, apparently, is the man he pretends to be. I'd love to know what Karnazes, or Nyad, or any clean Olympic athlete thinks of this "screw my competition, screw my word, win at any cost" attitude. Hell, I don't even support cutting another racer off. I always gave them room to race so we knew who the faster racer was. The only time another desert racer cut me off, I instinctively put my shoulder and my throttle into the guy and mowed his ass out of the way. If the rules prohibited that, I never found about about it.


Heh, funny that you mention Dean Karnazes, he was a friend of mine back when he lived in my neck of the woods, he'd WS circles around the rest of us back in the mid 80's thru the early 90's, before he moved up the S.F. bay area. Back then he would tout the benefits of caffeine to us as a boost before going windsurfing, but I'm pretty sure that was it, at least that's all he would tout.
Which brings me to Greg LaMond, I wonder if he's worried, should he be? It's hard to tell anymore, seems like society loves to bring down the "super athletes" now days, deserved or not.
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RocRobster



Joined: 22 May 2002
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 8:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:
A win by cheating is not a victory in any competition I can think of,


In politics apparently cheating is ok...
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 9:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya got me there.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 1250

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2012 4:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

N.W. 30. Greg La Mond (now officially the only American winner of the Tour de France) is generally given the benefit of the doubt over here as being one of the few untainted, and naturally gifted cyclists.

It is significant that Armstrong deliberately attempted to sully his name by claiming that he (La Mond) was a doper, and that he (Armstrong) could produce others who could prove it. You don't need be a psychologist to understand Armstrongs hatred of such 'clean' people!

I agree with the initial poster, and with Iso, that 'winning at all costs' is now too deeply ingrained in modern life to reverse, and that the olympic ideal has long since perished. The 'drugging' in all sports is now highly scientifically controlled by specialist doctors and chemists, and they are ALWAYS half a dozen steps ahaead of the testers. Can it ever be reversed?

The best comment I read was from a clean cyclist of good ability who had won a few races. I forget the exact wording but it went ... I don't care if they keep my samples for a hundred years and constantly retest them, I can face the world and my children and say, nobody will ever show me to have been a cheat. I achieved what I did fairly so I can hold my head high, and sleep easily!
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