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windsurfing related injuries
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some people don't get that soreness, regardless of the intensity or duration of their gym or WSing effort and time. That's what I've Googled and asked doctors and PTs about, with no answers beyond "Yeah, some lucky stiffs are like that. It may be your body's adaptation to a lifetime of all-out play" I've never tried a one-rep max lift (for obvious reasons), but I do take every strength set to total failure (otherwise why bother?), and my circuit training, a mixture of weights and interval exercises, used to run 4-6 hours nonstop 3 days a week back when I was trying to emulate a half-day of WSing in the gym. (That ended when I learned that overtraining is a medical condition that can take weeks to years to reverse.)

The three books I mentioned changed all that. Using their principles, I'm now getting the same benefits, with zero percent of the risk, in ~1% of the weights time and <5% of the "cardio" time. The downside? A 60-something life-time weightlifter tried McGuff's Superslow lifting method and pronounced it the hardest thing he had ever done (as did Arnold, in his prime, under Arthur Jones' tutelage). (I add ten seconds of maximum effort after complete positive failure with each set, then add one max-effort eccentric/negative.) No soreness. Some first-timers, including professional bodybuilders, puke from the sheer effort. Ditto proper interval training. After reading those books and many others on the same topics, trying their methods myself, seeing my old and overweight wife benefit from them after decades of the trendy stuff, and asking several professional trainers about them, I can no longer in good conscience advise anyone to pursue the trendy stuff like 3 sets of 10 lifting, long-slow-distance-style aerobics, and crunches. Instead, I mention those books to anyone who asks about getting in shape and let them choose for themselves.

Now, about that 10% body fat. I can get mine down to that in the winter, but for WSing I need more carbs to help me outlast the wind and daylight. By choice, I err on the side of fuel, not body fat avoidance. Simply put, the more I eat, the longer I can sail and the more visible my love handles.

Embo, starting a strength-building program will "find" and "set on fire" muscles you didn't now you had. That abates quickly, followed in most people by the much less intense soreness Techno talks about. But sore or not sore, greater strength helps the function and safety of all our joints, from knees to spine. A little nagging soreness after a workout or a big day on the water beats the heck out of a preventable injury, and REALLY beats having fatigue end your sailing before you run out of daylight or wind.

Mike \OO/


Last edited by isobras on Tue Aug 28, 2012 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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sailingjoe



Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1087

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is Embo still there? I was just reading in JFK's Profiles that in the early senate, some members would bring in their own booze. That prompted me to quaff a few Harpoon's before this post. It certainly did wonders for the aches and pains of life and sport!!! It's been hot and windless here. My ankles are swelling up. They aren't giving me pain, though, but I decided to forego exercise other than the work I did around the house today. I have seen a lot of funny science here on this thread. It makes for some interesting reading. Muscle pain is usually caused by a build up of waste material after a hard work-out. The circulation system just doesn't have the time to clear the tissues of the acids left over from the burn of calories. They also stiffen.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lactic acid is an excellent fuel for energy production once we train our bodies to use it as such. Besides, it dissipates within hours even if not used as fuel. Its soreness is thus fleeting, often just minutes in a trained athlete.
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noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 777

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought that waking up the next morning feeling like someone snuck in our room and beat the crap out of me was just part of it! Damn maybe I should work out more... Shocked
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've always described it as having been hit by a padded bus. For many people it involves soreness or even pain, while for others it feels more like numbing whole-body physical fatigue. I don't know about the former, but the cure for the latter involves at least three things: fluids, carbs, and getting back on the horse. We could have prevented much of it by gobbling down plenty of fluids plus simple carbs and proteins in a 4:1-5:1 ratio (non-fat chocolate milk is as good as whey and carb supplements) within 15 minutes of the last set or reach, then keeping up the proteins on a specific schedule for a couple of days.
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sailingjoe



Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1087

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 6:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobras wrote:
Lactic acid is an excellent fuel for energy production once we train our bodies to use it as such. Besides, it dissipates within hours even if not used as fuel. Its soreness is thus fleeting, often just minutes in a trained athlete.
Where did you get these ideas?
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 9:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From studying > 100 (I just walked into the next room and roughly counted them) exercise physiology books and skimming another hundred, including many undergrad and graduate textbooks plus peer-reviewed research compendia, mostly written by many of the world's leading researchers, trainers, professors, sports physicians, and athletes in the field. From grilling certified professional sports team trainers and physicians, PhD physical therapists, and endurance athletes at length at every opportunity. I was asked by a university dean to join his Exercise Physiology PhD program. I've also observed/experienced/applied much of what I've read in my own lifetime of heavy sports activities several days most weeks for over 60 years.

Hell, from Google. Try Googling lactic acid as a fuel, for example, before putting your fingers in gear.
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ronm41



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had a fair number of injuries windsurfing over my 30 some odd years in the sport but mainly broken ribs and rotator cuff that required surgery. They were all impact injuries and not use injuries so I am lucky in a number of ways that genetically I am gifted to have durable muscles and joints in good alignment and I am ambitious enough to train, X train and X sport year round with good common sense. I most certainly don't research but I have a personal friend who has been in the fitness business for 40 yrs and I from time to time get advise from. Anyway, what I currently do and is the best system I have been on is a combination of TRX training combined with Powerplate. I do this almost daily and try to get two extra hard sessions a week. I also try to trail ride my mt.bike 2x a week depending on wind forecasts. During the sailing season around here I can windsurfing 6.0 or smaller about 2-4 times a week. I don't have a off season as I add biking in the Fall as the wind dies and Backcountry ski/resort ski almost daily during ski season. So, as it shows I am busy and this is my lifestyle and addiction. I am old and eat well, no fast food or garbage. If anybody is looking for a change of pace workout, I would look into TRX. It can be done at home or on the road, gives a great workout in short time and is safe. Powerplate is great but a ultra expensive piece of gear. I got a steal on mine at a estate sale or I wouldn't have one. They would be available in some gyms. I live in the rurals and going to train at a gym is too far for me. I guess additionally, I don't take any NSAIDS or Tylenol, but try to be sensible in my physical self. But I think LGlutamine is a good supplment for recovery. Right now, I am a little sore from last nite as we had good somewhat unpredicted wind for two hours and I was on a 6.5 120 where I could have been on a 5.5 100 and I can feel my bicep tendons and midback from my waist harness. For me as soon as I get about 1/2 way tru my TRX routine it will be gone and ready for wind this afternoon. Wink
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2012 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ronm41 wrote:
I most certainly don't research

That's a personal choice, of course, but mine increased the efficiency of my workouts by at least 1,000% while measurably improving their efficacy, and clearly adds ability and endurance to my sports. Not only do I enjoy literature research more than working out, but it gets me better results and helps me avoid many myths, some wasteful and some risky or even distinctly harmful. But as long as we don't harm ourselves via injury or overtraining -- both common -- just about any exercise beats none.

Overall, the biggest physical challenge in this particular forum's quest is optimizing our WS conditioning ... striking a balance between developing the strength and endurance to sail all day vs fatiguing ourselves in the gym to the extent that it costs us shred time. The same goes for nutrition, to the extent that eating to maximize strength and endurance without inflating our spare tires is described by some authors as the holy grail of strength building. I gladly bias my nutrition towards WSing rather than belt size, and save serous gym workouts for my off season or maybe once or twice when we go for weeks without wind in season. Back when my various overlapping sports seasons covered 12 months I never got near a gym and had effectively unlimited endurance and minimal love handles. Deliberately achieving that takes informed planning and will power, especially in a sport so dependent on Mother Nature.
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ronm41



Joined: 02 May 2007
Posts: 172

PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2012 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doesn't need to be complicated. Going to a good trainer is worth more than reading books as they have first hand experience but of course like going to a good car mechanic the trainer needs to be good. Ive been training and working out since 8th grade, so over 50 years so I know myself pretty good and what is good for me. I still get advise from a trainer. Anyway, like I said above look into TRX and gyms that use Powerplates, this is the latest in new school workouts and training and very effective in training safely without injury potentials. Wink ISO, read up on it, might be of interest to you as well..................
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