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windsurfing related injuries
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KevinDo



Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 422
Location: Cabrillo Inside

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
I've got bad knees for a variety of reasons, age being one of them (62), windsurfing is just about the only sport that I can still do w/o much of a problem, been doing it since the early 80's, but I had to start paying attention to my stance to be able to continue windsurfing.
Very important, make sure your heels are in line with the bend of your knees, while powered up. If your heels are outside or inside of the knee bend, you will be tweeking your knees in a way that they don't like.


Little confused with that stance? picture?
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 2:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been windsurfing in strong winds and rough terrain, racing dirt bikes and snowmobiles in incredible terrain, and/or playing volleyball and football and waters sports several days a week for 60 years. I added serious winter gym time when I dropped the winter sports, including dirt bikes, a dozen years ago. Results include exceptional fitness, endurance, and flexibility at 69 years of age; more lifetime endorphins than 10 or 100 average people experience in a lifetime; plenty of temporary but no lasting trauma; and zero second thoughts. Barring injury, I don't get sore from any of the above, and I can outlast the vast majority of participants of any age (both probably because I do so danged much).

Do more, not less, and do it smartly. Know what you're doing in the gym and don't be stupid on the water, and your joints and tendons should last a long time.

Specifically:
• I've fought forearm tendinitis and -opathy for decades, 95% successfully most seasons because I consult physical therapists and modify my sailing technique when my tendons flare up.
• I never get near waist harnesses.
• I balance my harness lines very precisely.
• I wear all the armor practical. It has, with absolute certainty, prevented many injuries, some life-threatening. And that's in WINDSURFING, not just racing dirt bikes and snowmobiles at >90 mph.
• I treat injuries with medical assistance, not just OTC pills. The "Team Advil" approach is misguided and risky.
• If you get into freestyle, leave the tricks most likely to injure joints to people who don't care whether they remain athletic into their 70s. There are plenty of stunts with manageable risk.
• The three best exercise physiology books (out of close to a hundred) I've studied are "Body by Science" by McGuff, "P.A.C.E." by Sears, and "The New Rules of Lifting for Abs" by Schuler and Cosgrove. Read those*, add a sports nutrition book, and you can get FAR better results in FAR less time with FAR less risk of injury than just going to the gym and imitating others.
• Lifelong exercise adds many years of longevity and 2 to 3 decades of higher QOL to our lives compared to surfing a couch. You want aches and pains after 50, or even 40? Try that couch … or the riskier tricks! Broken bones usually heal fine; joints seldom do.
• Proper sports nutrition can boost performance and recovery across the board.

* McGuff and many books on the same topic will teach you how to build whole-body strength AND aerobic and anaerobic conditioning with an incredible ratio of benefit to risk and time, IF you’re willing to work harder, for a few minutes, than you’ve ever worked in the gym. My wife and I, plus many world champion body builders and athletes, love the efficacy and efficiency of that approach. Sears and similar books will supplement and further boost your aerobic, anaerobic, and vascular systems and convince you to drop that boring and outdated “cardio” crap millions of uninformed housewives crank out in the gym or on the road. Schuler and Cosgrove will fix that back right up by strengthening your core far beyond what those old-fashioned, inadequate, superficial -- even harmful -- crunches can. (Your spine is not a stiff support column and your abs are for ab machine commercials; it’s more like a chain whose each and every link is kept in place by obscure inner core muscles while your six-pack goes along for the ride and the camera.) Compared to what most gym patrons mimic or are even taught, the principles of these three books (and their dozens of similar books; these ideas have been codified and proven since the early 20th century) can pump you up across the board far more efficiently, effectively, and safely than long slow cardio + 3 sets of 10 + crunches. Work smarter, not longer.

I don't know yet what will end or dramatically impair my windsurfing ... neck osteoarthritis from four decades of swiveling my helmeted head while bouncing across rough terrain, worse knee injuries from being stupid and sailing the most extreme sessions the Gorge can dish out (I quit that for that reason), losing another inner ear to Meniere’s disease, or my returning cancer (6 more years, outside). What WON’T end my WSing all by itself is age, per se. There’s nothing like smart and continued use to keep our bodies (including our brains) younger than our chronological age.

Mike \OO/
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1791
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KevinDo wrote:
nw30 wrote:
I've got bad knees for a variety of reasons, age being one of them (62), windsurfing is just about the only sport that I can still do w/o much of a problem, been doing it since the early 80's, but I had to start paying attention to my stance to be able to continue windsurfing.
Very important, make sure your heels are in line with the bend of your knees, while powered up. If your heels are outside or inside of the knee bend, you will be tweeking your knees in a way that they don't like.


Little confused with that stance? picture?

More simply put, keep your heels centered with the back of your knees.
It keeps the shock absorbtion going up thru the center of your knees, as opposed to the inside or outside of them.
Similar to walking pigeon toed (toes in) or duck-like (toes out) your knees aren't meant to work that way.
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benspikey



Joined: 02 Aug 2008
Posts: 129

PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would advice that you work out your trunk more often.. Has done wonders for me..
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embo



Joined: 22 Feb 2011
Posts: 14

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 1:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, great suggestions everyone... Thank you so much and keep 'em coming. First and foremost, I am happy to hear that there are people who don't seem to have problems which excludes a causality between windsurfing and longterm injuries, even in just a few cases. Smile I think most people are right about the fact that the best injury prevention is regular workout, watching the stance and being in a good shape overall. If your muscles can help absorb external influences then your joints and bones don't have to take in all the stress. In this aspect, I don't mind having sore muscles. Also, I am not a big fan of chemicals either because I think it only treats the symptoms and not the real cause. Throwing painkillers to go sailing is an absolute no no for me. Smile

I think I will try to work out more during the week (yoga, core strength and legs/trunks) and raise the boom and see if that helps !

Thanks alot, guys! You are awesome!
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's one scenario in which anecdotal evidence is valid. In this case, it is supported by large scale statistics.

I'll use analgesics (but acetaminophen, not ibuprofen) for pain to play IF the booboo is understood and won't be exacerbated by play. Using NSAIDS for undiagnosed tendon pain presents multiple problems. Especially risky is the handfuls of Motrin/Advil/etc I've seen some ignorant people take; that stuff's dangerous, sending thousands of people to the ER every year and killing many.

Way back when, my boom height rule of thumb was "too high = shoulder fatigue, too low = leg fatigue".

I suggest Pilates rather than yoga, plus whole-body strength-building, plus interval training.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1492

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

iso said:

Quote:
I'll use analgesics (but acetaminophen, not ibuprofen) for pain to play IF the booboo is understood and won't be exacerbated by play. Using NSAIDS for undiagnosed tendon pain presents multiple problems. Especially risky is the handfuls of Motrin/Advil/etc I've seen some ignorant people take; that stuff's dangerous, sending thousands of people to the ER every year and killing many.


I am taking a risk here, but nevertheless, NSAIDS reduce inflammation where acetaminophen does not. It's always best to get a Dr's advice when in pain, but the reality is that pain from overdoing windsurfing is pretty common. Taking a pain reliever THAT REDUCES inflammation is a better thing than just a pain reliever. And by the way, overdoing acetaminophen can kill you too and play havoc with your liver, especially if you mix it with alcohol.

Dr's commonly prescribed double the recommended dose of ibuprofen for reducing inflammation in severe cases, but only for a limited time.

Getting in shape is the best medicine to prevent injuries. When you are in pain, do some research or see a Dr. before popping many pills. Almost all issues with pain related to overdoing windsurfing involve inflammation. With NSAIDS, If it doesn't improve in a sort time with rest, see a Dr. If you keep sailing and it doesn't improve or gets worse, see a Dr. NSAIDS aren't for everyone (stomach issues), but if you are smart enough to be reading this forum, then you probably know if you can take NSAIDS safely.

I had back issues for years and it wouldn't go away (NSAIDS temporally helped), so I finally went to a Doctor. Diagnose = no disc issues, but a "sloppy spine" from poor core strength. A few sessions with a physical therapist and now regular training to keep my core strong = 0 problems for the last several years.
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ramps



Joined: 07 May 2000
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Doc said that Ibuprofen can worsen hypertension (don't need help increasing that). I used to live on the stuff, but stopped taking it altogether, no real loss. If I have pain I don't want to deal with at a particular moment, I'll take acetaminophen, but it doesn't do a whole lot.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Acetaminophen is known to be selective in its effect. Women as a group, and many individuals, get less relief from it.

BTW, I've asked several doctors and physical therapists why working out, whether at play or in the gym, leaves some people sore but not others (not counting the DOMS associated with punishing a long-unused muscle). I've found no answer, not even a guess.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1492

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso,

Pain after a weight workout or any activity that stresses your muscles is generally caused by micro-tears of muscle fibers. This is a good thing since this is where you achieve the greatest gains in muscle strength.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/90703-eliminate-soreness-after-lifting-weights/

If I don't have at least a little soreness the following day, I know I didn't push myself hard enough in the weight room. I normally don't take anything for this type of pain since it's not significant. On the other hand, it's pretty easy to push too hard and actually do serious damage to connective tissue or muscles. It takes time and experience to push hard, but not too hard, especially when you get older.

Since I only average 1-2 days a week in the weight room, I probably have more soreness than if I hit it 3-4 days a week. However, my goals don't necessitate more than I do. I am 6', weight 166 and have 10% body fat.

I have been lifted weights (not heavy) consistently for over 50 years. I only recall one significant injury and that was a rotator cuff about 20 years ago doing a maximum lift, lat pull down. After physical therapy for a "frozen shoulder" that resulted from the rotator cuff injury, I finally got back to 100 % after a few months and slowly built up strenght in the shoulder. No more maximum lifts or anywhere close to it.
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