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cannot get weight forward on jibe entry
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watermonkey



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
How do you unhook before you start your jibe? Do you stand up to unhook or hang way out and barely raise your hips? Do you initiate the jibe by stomping your back foot on the leeward rail or gently placing it there? Where are you placing your back foot & where is it pointing?

Most people kill the speed of their jibe in the setup, long before they even start their jibe.

Coachg


Raising my hips to unhook...perhaps not barely, but I am conscious of not standing up.

Back foot is pointed across the board, roughly between the straps. I've tried directly behind and inline with the the front strap, though it seems less stable.

Definitely having problems placing the back foot gently, likely a consequence of trying to minimize the time between unhooking and starting the entry. I find that if I try to sail in the unhooked-but-in-setup-mode for very long, I end up waiting too long - hanging hard on the boom isn't nearly as smooth and hanging in the harness. I'll less of an issue with this (I think) if can get that front foot loaded...right?


Last edited by watermonkey on Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

watermonkey wrote:
I may be doing a weight-lifting squat, rather than a strict curtsey. Even so, the strict curtsey would leave my feet evenly weighted, I think.

Isn't looking ahead of the turn looking through the sail (or at an extreme, over your back shoulder at the wake)? My thought is that turning your head in that direction forces the shoulders to rotate to follow, helping to sheet in the sail...or rather, if you don't, you'll sheet out.

Back foot pointed across the board, or at an angle roughly parallel to the front strap? It sounds like each of you are doing the latter, allowing your hips to point more toward the mast.

isobars: Aren't you additionally shoving your inside hip into the turn, like bumping a car door closed?

Yes, but the car door bump is what produces my carve, more than getting my weight forward. Thinking about placing weight on my inside foot on its rail is too challenging, like thinking about how to chew gum or swallow peanut butter. I just shove my hips into the turn and let foot pressure occur automatically ... probably like looking at our intended path somehow makes our body follow. Try just that some time: put your back foot near the rail (pointed naturally, subconsciously), bear off to gain speed, stiff-arm (w/front arm) any tacklers coming at you from your intended exit path, oversheet, and close the car door. Fugheddabout jibing board or sail; just set the turn up and drive your hips into the turn and see what happens. Unless you're going so slow that the rail just submerges, you'll surprise yourself with a full carving turn, get backwinded, and fall in downwind with the sail in yer face.

CONGRATULATIONS; you just jibed your board. Now jibe the sail early in that process and you're a jiber. (Again, this may or may not work on them Formuly things. I don't know squat about them.)

Squat ... curtsy ... Sit On It ... whatever word gives your body the impetus to sit towards your heels (better yet, your toes) without bending forward/bowing at the waist. Bowing is as bad as leaning back.

Yes, simply squatting or curtsying by itself would evenly weight your feet. Shutting the car door tells your body to transfer more weight onto your inside/back foot, and the carve ensues without you thinking about your foot. If that car door has rusty hinges and is hard to close (i.e., if you really push hard on it with your hip), you're going to turn like you won't believe. Learn to control that, and on boards meant to turn and gear under maybe 6.5 and 125 liters, your jibes will become one quick, fluid, full-speed motion, rather than a sequence of individual steps, from beam reach to beam reach.

Yeah, the sail obstructs your view of the exit point ... until you learn to drive the mast further into the turn, both forward and downwind. That gets the mast below your line of sight. Until then, just use your x-ray vision and look through it ... whatever works to focus your attention on your intended path rather than on your sail.

When you say your back foot is between your straps ... which straps? You want it behind the far/downwind/unused front strap, not between the front straps. Just how far behind that front strap depends on the board, the jibe, etc.

And, of course, you don't stomp the rail like it was a plastic bottle you're trying to pop. OTOH, we also don't want to tiptoe through this whole thing as though we're feeling our way through a mine field, either. By the time we separate, think about, and individually perform all 12 or so steps of a jibe, the board has not only stopped but is beginning to grow moss and attract barnacles and your monofilm has suffered uv damage. Nike and Larry the Cable Guy have the right idea, within reason: "Just Do It" and "Git 'er Done". Somewhere between stomping the rail and checking off a 12-step jibe plan taped to your sail is that magical timing which allows you to proceed from port to starboard beam reaches with little or no loss of speed.

As for "loading that front foot", I presume you mean back foot ... the one you removed from its back strap and placed behind the front leeward strap.
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zirtaeb



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 2144

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Backfoot almost as far forward as the front foot that's IN the strap. Weight is on both your balls of your feet, not heels. Heels lifted up off the board, knees bent.
Lots of good sailors can plane thru jibes with body jackknifed, bent at the waist. Key is board speed and wind power. Good posture is needed for the unskilled.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 2293

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i yell at people about to drop in a wave or start another stiff legged jibe, one word, "CROUCH!"

it sometimes sinks in for the next wave or corner.

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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1349

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good points about bending the knees/squatting = weight has to be on the toes, not heels.

How much you bend your knees depends on water state. If you have nice flat/protected water, knee bend isn't as critical. However, if well powered in 20+ knot winds on a lake, most will be in 2+ foot chop and bouncing like crazy as you turn down over the back of the waves so bending the knees a lot is critical to maintain control. This is also the point where intermediate sailors forget to maintain pressure on the leeward rail to keep carving.
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watermonkey



Joined: 16 May 2003
Posts: 62

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Good points about bending the knees/squatting = weight has to be on the toes, not heels.

How much you bend your knees depends on water state. If you have nice flat/protected water, knee bend isn't as critical. However, if well powered in 20+ knot winds on a lake, most will be in 2+ foot chop and bouncing like crazy as you turn down over the back of the waves so bending the knees a lot is critical to maintain control. This is also the point where intermediate sailors forget to maintain pressure on the leeward rail to keep carving.


It's (exactly) the latter...20+ and 2' - no problem in the harness, somewhat chaotic out of it. I did a little experiment yesterday of just tilting the rig forward to bear off, unhooked but still in the straps...I coasted amazingly far bearing off to downwind, chasing down a couple sets of chop. I've been relying totally on footsteering forever (also no problem in chop) and had completely forgotten sail steering. Now I see how I can carry more speed bearing off before rolling onto the rail (I'm aiming for a wide arc jibe).
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
How much you bend your knees depends on water state. If you have nice flat/protected water, knee bend isn't as critical.

Unless you want to develop bad habits. If we Just Do It (bend our knees) every time, it's one less thing to analyze each time. Make it a habit, IMO.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

watermonkey wrote:
I'm aiming for a wide arc jibe.

Then forget much of what I've said on the topic ... seriously. IMO, wide jibes are fine on glassy water, especially if it's tilted, but begging for trouble on rough water.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1349

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess "knee bend isn't critical" didn't communicate clearly. On any gybe, always bend your knees. The bigger the chop and bounce, the more bend you need.

Another hint is to always wiggle your foot lose in the back strap a few seconds before you begin your gybe. Mine gets stuck some times and when I need to pull it out, it can mess up the gybe if stuck. I always were booties and this probably compounds the problem.
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's precisely why I don't wear booties. Almost every time I've felt a knee or ankle about to explode was because a bootied foot hung up in its strap. And just when I REALLY need it least, too many of my jibe failures are caused by not being able to get into the strap after a jibe in ice water.
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