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rider weight and planing ?
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kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 332

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two years ago I lost 35 lbs over the winter season. The change in sail size and board size that I now use is huge. At the end of 2010 I weighed 185-190 lbs, I now weigh 152. My friends and I used to use the same sized equipment. Today at Swell City, I was using a 4.0 meter sail and a 80 ltr RRD FSW board, in gusty, holy 23-24 mph winds, while my buddy who weighs in at 180-185, had to use a 4.8. and a 92 ltr. JP FSW board. He later went to a 5.4, while I was able to continue on the 4.0, although I wasn't way powered up, I was able to make it work....This means that I can get away most of the time with smaller and thus more maneuverable boards and sails. I love it.... I now look at what the gals are using rather than most men.

Lose the weight...you will be much healthier, look better and have a lot more fun sailing.

PS, The Weight Watchers program works for me.

KMF
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1274
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2012 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or you could just get a 14.2 % bigger sail for the same conditions.
Like say if the wind is 16MPH, and your 175 lb buddy rigs a 6.5, you just
rig a 7.4.

-Craig

w8n4wind wrote:
boardsurfr wrote:
If the have the same skills, it's directly proportional to their weight. So if 200 lb rider needs 18 mph, the 175 lb will plane in 16 mph. A 130 lb sailor will plane in ~ 13 mph, assuming s/he can handle the big sail.


ya,, rider has the same skills..its me.
what i am, and what i might be.
but that was what i was wondering, if it could be directly proportional..
and if it is... im going on a diet.
as that extra 2 miles an hour can make a big difference where i sail.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 709

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think smaller people are more nimble and learn to windsurf easier, especially waterstarting, jibing etc.. but a heavier and taller sailor can hold down a much bigger sail for sure.
Formula sailors are all tall and around 220lbs, I know most speed sailors are big but freestyle and wave sailors are smaller definitely.
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sailingjoe



Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1087

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 6:58 am    Post subject: Re: I'm about 290 lbs... Reply with quote

zirtaeb wrote:
One of my old buds was a guy called FatDave (Gould).
He was 5'10" and 275lbs.

How literary. "Stately, Plump Buck Mulligan" revised. Time ot bring in Grace Slick who is now old, fat and jolly. It must have been the Rice-aroni, the San Francisco treat.
bubbalover wrote:
I sail quite a bit bigger than most people. In a recent 30+ day at the Event Site I was out on a 6.4 while most people were on 4.somethings.
That is remarkable. Strength, I find, does have something to do with this, too. That's why many of the small guys I run into have issues about sail size. As I get older, it becomes harder to hold on to sails and that has become a factor in my choice of size.
bubbalover wrote:
I can handle a 9.5 freeride sail up to about 20-21.
I can handle my 9.6 up to 20-21, but I don't want to. If I see a meter reading with gusts to that, I take serious observations regarding lulls, waves, etc. An 8.4 can be much more comfortable if the wind is steady.

bubbalover wrote:
When it comes to planing, board volume can make a huge difference.
I agree, but I'm not sure whether it's the dimension of equipment that is the most important. Type of board, size and type of fin, and other factors might be more important.
bubbalover wrote:

I know big guys, 250 lbs., who can make really small gear work. Skill is the single most important factor when it comes to planing.
I also think it is the most overlooked. Who wants to say, I wasn't planing because I suck at the sport?
kmf wrote:


Lose the weight...you will be much healthier, look better and have a lot more fun sailing.

I'll drink to that!!!
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KBack



Joined: 21 Apr 2010
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

keycocker wrote:
Bubba you mean that a wider board gets you up quicker.
Volume is handy for slogging but wont get you planing if the board is already on the surface.
Any shaper can give you a way to confirm this. Tape a 10 liter size block of foam on top of your board and see if the extra volume will you get on plane sooner.
Same if you peel back the skin and scrape 10 liters off the foam and reseal it.
We once cut 18 ins off the front of a board with a broken nose and thought it would plane slower and turn faster because it was shorter and less volume.
It pearled a little but sailed exactly the same as before.


Are you saying there is no differnece in quicker planning say between 120l and 135L of same board and using the exact same rig on both boards.. and that volume really only has to with slogging and wont get you planning..
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt anyone's saying that ... deliberately. Volume, width, hull shape, fin type and size, gusts, chop, mast base placement, and more all affect planing ease. A change in any one of those can make an appreciable, often very significant, difference. Furthermore, personal preference makes an even bigger difference -- often a HUGE difference, as in 30-40% -- in sail size choice if planing threshold isn't the only factor.

Mike \OO/
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1274
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually that's exactly what he's saying. If your hypothetical 120 and
135 Ltr boards had identical bottom dimensions, and were only different
in top to bottom thickness, then there would be little difference in how
quickly they plane up under the same rider and rig weight, ...............
but, near the buoyancy threshold of the 120 ltr board, it will sit lower
in the water, and there will initially be more friction as a result, and that
might be more than the offset from the weight difference in boards,
so the floatier board might plane up from a dead stop a little earlier
that the less floaty board.

Volume really only has to do with slogging, surface area (and bottom shape) have to do with planing.

-Craig

KBack wrote:
Are you saying there is no differnece in quicker planning say between 120l and 135L of same board and using the exact same rig on both boards.. and that volume really only has to with slogging and wont get you planning..
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sergio_k



Joined: 05 Jan 2009
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 12:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to add to this:
extra volume benefits are mainly if your style is passive,
if you pump and have excess volume in the tail, you will plane slower,
since you need to put more effort pushing tail/fin.
At my weight (135lb), every time I try production board that's about the same as mine but 10-30 l more volume, it always feels sluggish when I try to pump it on the plane..

KBack wrote:
Are you saying there is no differnece in quicker planning say between 120l and 135L of same board and using the exact same rig on both boards.. and that volume really only has to with slogging and wont get you planning..
[/quote]
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isobras



Joined: 17 Jul 2012
Posts: 439

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
If your hypothetical 120 and
135 Ltr boards had identical bottom dimensions, and were only different
in top to bottom thickness, then there would be little difference in how
quickly they plane up under the same rider and rig weight

I don't see where anyone claimed that, and that's a mighty big "If". In a given brand and model of board, the 135 will be wider (and probably be shaped with earlier planing in mind) than the 120. And between different brands or models, the shapes are not likely to be identical.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3439

PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso is correct and that is main reason sailors think more volume helps planing.
I am in the biz of custom boards and volume is at the choice of the sailor with the same shape and rails.
Assume they are both floating, the higher volume boards wont plane up quicker. The key number for planing up is the width at the leading edge which engages the water. Thats why shapers took the noses off and made the mid section wide.
Volume in the tail can help too.
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