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Double backstrap
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mchaco1



Joined: 08 Sep 2010
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:01 pm    Post subject: Double backstrap Reply with quote

I finally got the straps working well and was out all day on my 95L with a 6.8 at the event site (way too big, but it was nice to waterstart in the straps). I can start in the straps and get in them on the move fine in the 95L with wave set straps. Yesterday I had the big Hifly board out that has angled double back straps, I can water start that one with the back foot in and slip in the front pretty easy, but whatever I did I could not get the back foot in on the move(with front foot in first. Obviously that is not ideal. Any tips on getting into a wider backstrap set?

Last edited by mchaco1 on Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1089
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will get different answers but as one who teaches. Waterstarting in the straps is not a good habit to get into. Heck waterstarting with both feet isn't good either. While you can get away with a lot of bad habits in 30mph overpowered conditions, those aren't the conditions you should be learning for..

I'll let others address the sailing with double back straps..
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mchaco1



Joined: 08 Sep 2010
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
You will get different answers but as one who teaches. Waterstarting in the straps is not a good habit to get into. Heck waterstarting with both feet isn't good either. While you can get away with a lot of bad habits in 30mph overpowered conditions, those aren't the conditions you should be learning for..

I'll let others address the sailing with double back straps..

My one leg/low wind waterstarts are great now, and I can get in the normal way with a center back strap everytime now, its just the double backstrap thats getting me. Getting in the straps exposed my biggest bad habit/weakness though, I spent so much time crawling upwind at the event site on the way back that Im having a hard time going/staying downwind on starboard tack, hopefully I can even it out soon.
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kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 306

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The key to getting into the back footstraps on a freeride-race type board is to be totally committed to the harness before one tries to insert the rear foot. The rear leg- foot should be weightless, no weight on it, all of your weight is balanced on the harness, and the front foot, (in the front strap). Then you can do whatever is necessary with the back foot.

Of course, some boards are set up with the straps so close to the rail, that it is always a pain to get in the rear.

Perhaps you will have more success if you get the front and rear straps closer together. A long reach to the rear will upset your balance. Boom height will pay a role here too. Double straps, hiked out, go fast stance requires a slightly higher boom.

KMF
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13278

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johnl wrote:
You will get different answers but as one who teaches ... Waterstarting in the straps is not a good habit to get into

An advantage of waterstarting with the back foot in its (center) strap is board control. It gives us a firm handle on the board's position, roll, and yaw during the process. Particularly with little boards in stiff wind, it helps us keep the lee rail from being driven into the water. And if drifting downwind during a waterstart matters or we need every mph of apparent wind, a little dorsiflexion (raising our toes) in the back strap lowers the windward rail to slow our drift.

BOTH straps, however? That's pure once-a-year survival mode when I'm desperate to get my rag-dolled butt back to shore and rig down by 2 or 3 sizes. On the contrary, as you know, dangling our front leg forward and deep into the water helps us waterstart in marginal breezes.
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mchaco1



Joined: 08 Sep 2010
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kmf wrote:
The key to getting into the back footstraps on a freeride-race type board is to be totally committed to the harness before one tries to insert the rear foot. The rear leg- foot should be weightless, no weight on it, all of your weight is balanced on the harness, and the front foot, (in the front strap). Then you can do whatever is necessary with the back foot.

Of course, some boards are set up with the straps so close to the rail, that it is always a pain to get in the rear.

Perhaps you will have more success if you get the front and rear straps closer together. A long reach to the rear will upset your balance. Boom height will pay a role here too. Double straps, hiked out, go fast stance requires a slightly higher boom.

KMF

I keep my boom pretty high, but could probably work on staying stable with no weight on the back foot more
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mchaco1



Joined: 08 Sep 2010
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
johnl wrote:
You will get different answers but as one who teaches ... Waterstarting in the straps is not a good habit to get into

An advantage of waterstarting with the back foot in its (center) strap is board control. It gives us a firm handle on the board's position, roll, and yaw during the process. Particularly with little boards in stiff wind, it helps us keep the lee rail from being driven into the water. And if drifting downwind during a waterstart matters or we need every mph of apparent wind, a little dorsiflexion (raising our toes) in the back strap lowers the windward rail to slow our drift.

BOTH straps, however? That's pure once-a-year survival mode when I'm desperate to get my rag-dolled butt back to shore and rig down by 2 or 3 sizes. On the contrary, as you know, dangling our front leg forward and deep into the water helps us waterstart in marginal breezes.

I was definitely overrigged by two or three sizes yesterday. I only took a 6.8 on a bad forecast and the availability of "free" demo gear (that ended up requiring a $25 wristband). It was good to get in a day of overpowered practice though, if im caught out overpowered somehwere less friendly than the event site it wont be a big deal getting back.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13278

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The surest long-term cure for getting overpowered is sailing overpowered.

No, really. MANY people -- 50-75% of WSers by observation -- run for shore and rig down every time they get a little more power than they want for a reach or two. Many of those are screwed if the wind really picks up and stays there because they usually run for shore and rig down every time they get a little more power than they want. Not only does that waste a ton of shred time, but usually the wind backs off to what it was before the surge, so their wasted time is doubled AND they missed an opportunity to learn how to not only survive but enjoy sailing overpowered. The more overpowered and the more time they spend overpowered, the more they learn about sailing overpowered, thus the less often they GET overpowered.

Get it?
Got It.
Good.

The guys who win the Gorge Blowout didn't learn how to sail 7.0s in 3.5 wind by sailing 3.7s in 3.5 wind; they learned it by sailing 7.0s in 3.5 wind. Gimme 20 more years of practice, 30 fewer years of age, and their DNA and nerve, and I could do that, too. Until then, I can enjoy a 6.2 when most guys my size are on 4.5s. What that gains me on days when the wind speed is all over the place is one long, fun, thrilling, fully planing session while most people rig up and down anywhere from 2 to 5 times, a total PITA when there's a big shoreline wind shadow and we're on sinkers.

Look at it this way: as long as we can do what we want out there despite (or thanks to) a handful of wind -- plane, jump, jibe, slash, ride swell, prevent broken bones, and generally have fun -- we are not overpowered; we're just fully powered. If we keep pushing that edge of our performance envelope, it recedes, and the rewards are immense.

I've seen many people avoid that edge for decades. I hope it's a deliberate and conscious choice, because it sure limits their sailing skills progression.
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mchaco1



Joined: 08 Sep 2010
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

Look at it this way: as long as we can do what we want out there despite (or thanks to) a handful of wind -- plane, jump, jibe, slash, ride swell, prevent broken bones, and generally have fun -- we are not overpowered; we're just fully powered. If we keep pushing that edge of our performance envelope, it recedes, and the rewards are immense.

I've seen many people avoid that edge for decades. I hope it's a deliberate and conscious choice, because it sure limits their sailing skills progression.

Thats how I felt about it..full powered. Ive got a nice bruise growing on my thigh, but it could have happened normally powered. I only felt over powered a couple runs back in, but it was still fun, and I was up and flying while everyone else was hanging their 4.5's out waiting for a gust. I think im going to have to get some much bigger sails to ever use the big board again, weird how it went from my main board to obsolete in one weekend.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 1124
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a big over rigger, but Mike has a lot of it right. You rig for the
holes and you end up thinking the wind was steady while everyone else
complains about how gusty it was. My recollection is that Windfest was
on Saturday, I was up at the Hatchery riding a 5.5 which toward the end
or the day was pretty powered up. Most people left were on 4.7s, but it
would have been a bit of a rodeo for me on a 6.2, then again, I only
weigh 180. ;*)
-Craig

mchaco1 wrote:
Thats how I felt about it..full powered. Ive got a nice bruise growing on my thigh, but it could have happened normally powered. I only felt over powered a couple runs back in, but it was still fun, and I was up and flying while everyone else was hanging their 4.5's out waiting for a gust. I think im going to have to get some much bigger sails to ever use the big board again, weird how it went from my main board to obsolete in one weekend.
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