Check before gype!

[zirtaeb]

Should we agree that all sailors are responsible for safety?
So, narrow it down to TWO windsurfers. Downwind guy and upwind guy, not officially racing. What is the responsibilities of each?
Downwind sailor... to sail forwards and not sail into anyone's blind spot.
Upwind sailor...to sail forwards and clear his front, his sail effectively mutes any clear sight BACKwards and downwind thru his WET sail.
So we can agree there is a blindspot?
If a downwind sailor deliberately sails into this BLINDSPOT, the is just as responsible as the upwind sailor who didn't see the downwind sailor.

[swchandler]

johnl brings up an important point. Many folks try hard to retain or improve their windward position. As they do that, they can't always see those upwind of them, particularly those fast off the wind, or those even on a driving beam reach. In the many situations, intermediates can be going more off the wind to avoid hitting big ramps directly to windward.

What I find more often at venues that I sail at is the fact that there are a lot of kiters working the surf lineup. Going out to starboard, they drive really hard to windward to get back to a point way upwind to start again. Because their kites are so much higher and able to catch more wind, their windward angles often exceed what a windsurfer can do with surfy gear. That makes it more important to look off the wind all the time, and not just when you going to jibe.

Needless to say, being aware and proactive is your best plan and strategy.

[zirtaeb]

Looking around and being aware is something all sailors should strive for.....
But, every windsurfer is also looking UPWIND, to see the guts coming down, to see the water state they are about to enter, AND, their hearing is not impaired by the sail, nor is their SIGHT blocked by a possibly WET sail.
Upwind guy is also looking UPWIND, to see the wind, to spot the chop and swells, and his downwind and BACK sight is blocked by his sail, as is his hearing!
Arguements can be made for or against both sides, this is NOT sailboat racing with multiple eyes and racing rules.
When a windsurfer goes out in the water, they have to be aware that THEY, AND the other sailors, are responsible for their safety.
Also, this sailboat racing rule thing doesn't apply, because the downwind sailor has to develop and overlap before he can establish his "right of way".

[zirtaeb]

Do any of you windsurfers look DOWNWIND while you are windsurfing?
Every good sailor is looking ahead and UPWIND, not downwind, and especially not downwind and BACK.

[johnl]

Some of you still don't get it. It is NOT a racing rule it is the LAWS that govern all US waters. Please search the reference i posted. Surf "rules" are not the same thing. They have no legal claim. ROW Laws do have legal claim. You may not like it but that doesn't make it not true.

Personally any time I change my course I look first. But give me a break. If the sailor is windward and overtaking he is behind my view. So unless I develope Linda Blairs ability to turn my head 360 degrees i am not going to see him..

[mac]

I've represented windsurfers in San Francisco Bay for more than twenty years in trying to protect windsurfing access. I've also raced on the Bay for about that long, and seen horrendous crashes. Most people have a general understanding that we have a right of access to water, but don't understand the underlying authority for that right, or the limitations. Trying to impose your own viewpoint, or worse, the "rules" of surfing right of way on a wave is dangerously ignorant and narcisistic. Let me try to explain what the rules are, and why it matters.

Some states have their own rules about access to the water; in California it is written into the State Constitution. But that authority rests, ultimately, in the public trust doctrine. That concept gives all users of the public waters equal access rights for navigation, fishing, swimming, and passive activities like birdwatching. No one user's rights are paramount; the uses have to be shared and the rights to use the waters can be restricted to protect public safety and the resource.

The Federal government, as the sovereign authority and the original owner of all of the waters in the Country, retains an ownership interest, commonly known as navigational servitude. The Coast Guard, under that authority, has the ability to temporarily, or permanently, restrict access. For San Francisco Bay, and of notice, the Coast Guard establishes annual restrictions on access for the Fleet Week event, and is considering substantial restrictions to windsurfing and kiting to stage the America's Cup. Without question, if they go through the rule-making process, they have the authority to do so.

San Francisco Boardsailing Association represents windsurfers and kiters in various arenas, and our mission includes protecting the rights of access and the safety of our members. The Columbia Gorge Association has a similar mission for the Gorge. It is particularly important to educate new users, such as SUP users, who often venture onto navigable waters without a working understanding of the laws that govern their behavior.

Here is the basic rule of navigation for navigable waters, with a source:

[cbknap]

[zirtaeb]

If you insist on following only the rules, and you're stupid enough to sail into someone's blind spot, then get jibed on, you deserve the accident you created, that's all.
Your RULES, don't include common sense. Avoiding potential accidents is common sense. You don't have it, obviously.

[mac]

Common sense entails knowing the rules of navigation, looking before you change course, and accepting responsibility. Obviously you don't have those attributes.

[zirtaeb]

You are blind, and of course, since I do sail with you, I KNOW you don't have common sense. I see you cutting off total beginner shortboarders insisting on your right of way, when you can tell they don't know what they're doing, and can't manuever.
I see you playing the chicken game all the time! You on port, heading hard upwind, coming close to other sailors in starboard who aren't planing, and they COMPLAIN about you to the CalSailing AND CalAdventures dayleaders and RecSups.
Please don't say you have ANY common sense. I've been sailing with you for over 10 years, and I avoid you like the plague. THAT IS COMMON SENSE!